How much would you pay for an improved AI upgrade

[womble]

A couple of threads have prompted this poll. I hope that:

 

a) it works (it's my first poll ever anywhere; be gentle with me )

it has some use or entertainment value.

 

BFC is convinced that nobody would pay an economically sustainable price to make spending a lot of development time on AI improvement to the detriment of new features. I'm thinking that if the game is largely feature-complete (what's missing? Flares and proper nighttime illumination sources; environmental fire; mast-mounted vision equipment... can't think of anything else immediately) and they're working on a UI improvement already, perhaps an AI upgrade might be next if there's enough support for it. Whadday'all think?

 

Edit: by "Nobody" I mean "insufficient people".

 

Edit2: I know there are only 4 game families in the upgradeable stream at the moment; I added "all of them" because Bulge, at least, will be out before anything of this ilk gets a green light.

Edited March 11, 2015 by womble

[Alexey K]

I'am ready to pay $60 for skirmish AI in QB.

 

EDIT: Ready to pay even more for custom AI plugin API.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Alexey K

[H1nd]

All tho I pretty much only play pbem I would still pay what ever it takes to get these improvements.

[Baneman]

I voted $20 for #1 - but I believe that BFC are/would be working towards that anyway. So we might get that bundled in an engine upgrade if there's ever a v4.0

 

I voted 0 for #2 because I don't believe it's feasible within the resources/timeframe available ( counting both programmers and CPU cycles available in "resources" ).

 

Just my opinion of course.

[John Kettler]

Are the costs cumulative, as in if I check $10 for the first and $5 for the second, am I then expecting to pay BFC that sum to add those new AI capabilities? In other words, something akin to paying $10 or whatever for an Upgrade?  

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

Edited March 11, 2015 by John Kettler

[Banex]

Upgrades,modules,scenario/campaign packs.Anything that adds to the current games.Count me in.

[rocketman]

I'm willing to pay just about anything to make this great game series even better. 

[Alexey K]

Kickstart whole thing?

[niall78]

Upgrades,modules,scenario/campaign packs.Anything that adds to the current games.Count me in.

I'm in the same boat. I'll pay for any upgrades available. That isn't blind faith - it comes from getting years of fun out of quality products. I've never been let down by BF (I've blanked the first year of CMSF out of my mind ).

 

Kickstart whole thing?

 

I'd love to not only Kickstart AI improvements but Kickstart whole new series within CM such as France and Barbarossa.

[womble]

Are the costs cumulative, as in if I check $10 for the first and $5 for the second, am I then expecting to pay BFC that sum to add those new AI capabilities? In other words, something akin to paying $10 or whatever for an Upgrade?  

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

My intent was that it be read as effectively two separate upgrades. As Baneman said, the first pick is probably something BFC are working on anyway and is a significantly more attainable goal than the second, and I'd anticipate multiple man-years of work being involved to make the leap from one to t'other. So if you want an adaptable Tactical/exectutive level and branching AI plans, you'd be paying a cumulative sum at $15 in your example. And yes, exactly akin to paying $10 for each upgrade; I've put the higher-than-$10 prices in, because I'm pretty sure that just $10 isn't going to pay for the work, and a "big bang upgrade" of the AI might need to be more expensive per family than we've heretofore been used to.

Edited March 11, 2015 by womble

[Childress]

I suspect that the importance of the quality of the game's AI will  shrivel to nothingness once Battlefront comes up with their own in-house multiplayer lobby. If Slitherine can pull it off...

[Apocal]

I suspect that the importance of the quality of the game's AI will  shrivel to nothingness once Battlefront comes up with their own in-house multiplayer lobby. If Slitherine can pull it off...

 

I'd buy that for a dollar!

[Banex]

I suspect that the importance of the quality of the game's AI will  shrivel to nothingness once Battlefront comes up with their own in-house multiplayer lobby. If Slitherine can pull it off...

Now that would be something.

[womble]

I suspect that the importance of the quality of the game's AI will  shrivel to nothingness once Battlefront comes up with their own in-house multiplayer lobby. If Slitherine can pull it off...

Given that BFC believe the HvH constituency of all stripes to be a tiny minority of their player base, and of that HvH constituency, the majority are still PBEM because they like the turn-based nature I don't see that making multiplayer RT any easier is going to have very much impact on the proportion of people playing the game HvH. Sure, it'll get some new RT-ers in, but it'd have to be a revolutionary number to change the demographic significantly.

[Apocal]

Given that BFC believe the HvH constituency of all stripes to be a tiny minority of their player base, and of that HvH constituency, the majority are still PBEM because they like the turn-based nature I don't see that making multiplayer RT any easier is going to have very much impact on the proportion of people playing the game HvH. Sure, it'll get some new RT-ers in, but it'd have to be a revolutionary number to change the demographic significantly.

 

The biggest stumbling block I encounter when shilling CMx2 is that gamers are used to easily accessible pick-up/public games.

[Childress]

Given that BFC believe the HvH constituency of all stripes to be a tiny minority of their player base, and of that HvH constituency, the majority are still PBEM because they like the turn-based nature I don't see that making multiplayer RT any easier is going to have very much impact on the proportion of people playing the game HvH. Sure, it'll get some new RT-ers in, but it'd have to be a revolutionary number to change the demographic significantly.

 

Who's taking about RT? Slitherine's Battle Academy is turned based and their lobby works, I'm told, like a charm. And no need to hunt down partners. You're opp may be a total stranger. That's OK!  If he drops out, there's always another. Granted, the files are larger in CM. I've played a grand total of 3 PBEMs in CM2 and found the file exchanges clunky. BF needs to come up with server step-up that incorporates a utility like GAJ's in a seamless, effortless way. No more Dropbox.

 

Yes, the majority of players do only single player. That's true of virtually all extant sims, including the Total War series. However, the MP guys drive, imo, the market in the sense of contributing excitement and energy. Their exploits dominate their respective forums. Hardenberger's online matches help sell BF games. He and his ilk are the baker's yeast of the series.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Childress

[agusto]

i voted #1/10$ and #2/5$.

 

I agree with Baneman who said:

 

I voted $20 for #1 - but I believe that BFC are/would be working towards that anyway. So we might get that bundled in an engine upgrade if there's ever a v4.0

 

I voted 0 for #2 because I don't believe it's feasible within the resources/timeframe available ( counting both programmers and CPU cycles available in "resources" ).

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

If BFC manages it do make an AI that is truely capable of beeing aware of itself and the situation around it and play CMBS as a good as or even better than a human, DoD would probably pay them millions and millions $ though. But given that the most advanced AIs that currently exists on planet earth are compareably as sentient as a tapeworm, that is rather unlikely to happen. I think that it is just not worth for BFC to invest time in making a dynamic AI. Give us more complex triggers with if-then-or-else capabilities, that should be sufficient.

Edited March 12, 2015 by agusto

[Stagler]

I suspect that the importance of the quality of the game's AI will  shrivel to nothingness once Battlefront comes up with their own in-house multiplayer lobby. If Slitherine can pull it off...

 

We have the technology! But we dont want to spend alot of money...

[A Canadian Cat]

I guess the old TV show would have been the 2 million dollar man then

 

Seem like this matches up with what Steve said recently on this subject.  <editorializing removed on edit>

[Stagler]

i voted #1/10$ and #2/5$.

 

I agree with Baneman who said:

 

 

If BFC manages it do make an AI that is truely capable of beeing aware of itself and the situation around it and play CMBS as a good as or even better than a human, DoD would probably pay them millions and millions $ though. But given that the most advanced AIs that currently exists on planet earth are compareably as sentient as a tapeworm, that is rather unlikely to happen. I think that it is just not worth for BFC to invest time in making a dynamic AI. Give us more complex triggers with if-then-or-else capabilities, that should be sufficient.

 

Haha. You know there is such thing as computer game "AI". It doesnt have to be a self sentient skynet to be a good opponent at game. Go play something else for ten minutes and see. As I have said time and time again they are not skynet self sentient AIs. They are just algorithms. If X then Y. If Y then Z. If X and Y, but not Z, then W.

 

Attack point X. If moved in that direction for 15 minutes and not at point X, then move in another direction to point X.

[sburke]

If BF implemented an AI like suggested above BF would be crucified. I would vote on the poll but the pricing is completely unrealistic. Even $60 is likely not going to get you much.

[agusto]

Haha. You know there is such thing as computer game "AI". It doesnt have to be a self sentient skynet to be a good opponent at game.

 

Technically the term artificial intelligence is an oxymoron when used to describe CPU controlled opponents in computer games. The way  "AI" in games works is that it is programmed to immitate intelligent behaviour in a certain set of predefined situations. If the game-AI faces a situation that is not part of its predefined program, it will fail to act appropriately. And it will not only fail to act appropriately in that single situation, it will also fail to modify its behaviour in such a way that it will be able to handle similar situations better in case they are encountered again at some point in the future.

 

Go play something else for ten minutes and see. As I have said time and time again they are not skynet self sentient AIs. They are just algorithms. If X then Y. If Y then Z. If X and Y, but not Z, then W.

 

Attack point X. If moved in that direction for 15 minutes and not at point X, then move in another direction to point X.

 

I have played a lot of other games that have a dynamic AI and i have also programmed some myself (which, admittedly, were quite simple, but still helped me to improve my understanding) and that is exactely the reason why i prefer the way CM handles things. A pre-defined plan made by a competent scenario designer will easily be much more realistic and effective than any sort of dynamic AI that BFC could realistically implement. What we need in CM regarding the "AI" are more complex triggers togive scenario designers the tools to make better pre-defined plans.

Edited March 12, 2015 by agusto

[Childress]

We have the technology! But we dont want to spend alot of money...

 

Let's put it this way. If BF provided or outsourced a match making service on a subscription basis how much would you be willing to pay? $5/month? $10/month?

[sfhand]

They are all worthy ideas, IMHO, however, I'd rather pay for a 64bit Windows release with multicore support.

[slysniper]

If you all are so willing to pay for smart AI.

 

I can solve your problem.

 

You can call me AI, send your checks directly to me and I will quite my job and will be available for your services each and every day.

 

I promise you to provide a high level of play and you will have complete control over any battle and situation you would like to play.

 

I even promise to never speak a word  so that you have that true AI feeling of not having to deal with another Human being.