Slow-moving troops should stop when detecting minefields

[Bulletpoint]

When you send your troops forward with SLOW, HUNT, or MOVE, it seems to me they should do the rational thing and stop if they locate a minefield (just so the red sign appears, without triggering any mines).

 

Once in a while, they do actually spot the mines before stepping on them, and it would be sweet if they would then just stop instead of walking on until they do trigger the mines. (I'm playing on WeGo, so there's often a long time until I get the chance to manually stop them - if I even notice the mines).

 

Maybe the behaviour could be tied to troop quality, so only "regular" and above would do this SOP? Maybe only "veteran" and above could be able to not only stop, but also to move back out of the minefield safely (by stepping in previous footprints).

 

Sorry if this has been raised before.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[womble]

It certainly seems like a reasonable behaviour to have for troops that don't have any pressing reason to be on the other side of the minefield, whether they detect it via keen-eyed wariness or shocked surprise at the maiming of a squadmate. I'd suggest it be a sliding scale though, with more experienced, better led troops having a better chance of realising what they're (about to) get themselves into, and higher Motivation troops with good Morale states being more likely to take the risk. I don't personally know how distinctive mine detonations are from, say, mortar/artillery shell or grenade explosions, so can't really form an opinion on how likely it is that the one could be mistaken for the other, leading to the incorrect decision to "get out from under that mortar before the next shell drops"... All such decisions should be more likely to be catastrophically wrong if the element is stressed.

[mbarbaric]

anything, no matter how slow or fast it goes, should stop when detecting minefield. if not because of mine itself then because of shock which,on other hand, might make someone to run aimlessly. that is a well known mine field paradox.

 

@womble anyone who is in the army should immediately know the difference between a land mine and mortar or any other shell falling from the sky. they would know it from the sound,injuries inflicted...

 

i do agree the behavior should somehow be determined by experience of troops and the conditions on the battlefield.

Edited March 6, 2015 by mbarbaric

[Bulletpoint]

There's a world of difference between "I want your squad over there by the trees ASAP (but dont be stupid)" and "I want your squad over there ASAP (come hell or high water)".

 

That's why I thought that when giving FAST or QUICK commands, that would mean the latter, whereas the slower movement commands would mean "use your brains soldier".

[Bulletpoint]

Also, please note that I'm talking about the situation BEFORE any mines go off. You're walking with your mates through a field when you suddenly see a red signpost with some German words you don't really read well, but you do recognise the big drawing of a human skull - literally not a good sign.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[highlandcharge]

But there is no red sign until a mine is triggered or the engineers find the minefield....I think :-)

[womble]

But there is no red sign until a mine is triggered or the engineers find the minefield....I think :-)

Not in-game, no. I think minefields were "supposed" to be marked according to the contemporary conventions of war, but expect that even so, they often weren't, or marked fields were more often dummy than real. If every minefield had an "Achtung! Minen" sign, they'd be easier to spot! What the pTruppen detecting the minefield (indicated in the game by the appearance of the sign) covers is probably more noticing the trigger wires or recently turned earth. Or the explosions and shrapnel, depending on their method.

It would perhaps be an interesting option to buy a minefield as "marked", meaning that it was readily visible in normal daylight; minefields' main tactical use isn't the causing of casualties, but the channeling of the enemy away from the mines. Would also mean that "dummy" minefields could be a useful thing; the potential presence of decoys almost require an attacker to investigate whether any obvious minefield is real or a ruse... BFC have apparently expressed an interest in broadening the combat engineering game in future engine iterations; perhaps such devices could be a part of that.

[Warts 'n' all]

I find it particularly annoying when a team trigger off a mine. And then 10, 20, or 30 seconds later the rest of the squad following on behind blunder into the same minefield, instead of stopping and cowering. I suppose that is one of the drawbacks of WEGO.

[Pak40]

anything, no matter how slow or fast it goes, should stop when detecting minefield. if not because of mine itself then because of shock which,on other hand, might make someone to run aimlessly. that is a well known mine field paradox.

 

If all troops, regardless of the type of movement order, stopped when detecting a mine field then you could never get them out of a minefield. I think Hunt is the one command that should stop if a minefield is detected. Of course, it would be useless if any enemy are already visible to the unit performing the Hunt command. Perhaps we need an entirely new command called Tippy Toe?

[BLSTK]

Great idea, Pak40.

 

Or perhaps "Egg shells"?

[womble]

I think Hunt is the one command that should stop if a minefield is detected. Of course, it would be useless if any enemy are already visible to the unit performing the Hunt command.

If you give Hunting units a short Target Arc, they'll ignore contacts outside the Target Arc (or those not valid in the TA, if it's an Armour TA). So the Hunting unit would only stop if it receives incoming (or hits/detects a Minefield, in your suggestion).

[poesel]

Another annoying behaviour: if you have two teams and the first one runs unto a minefield and subsequently stops and cowers the second will happily run over the same AS without stopping for their bleeding comrade in that small crater.

[Pak40]

Another annoying behaviour: if you have two teams and the first one runs unto a minefield and subsequently stops and cowers the second will happily run over the same AS without stopping for their bleeding comrade in that small crater.

 

Yes it's annoying, but it would be just as annoying when you want your guys to actually proceed through the minefield but they stop automatically because there are mines.

[Bulletpoint]

Yes it's annoying, but it would be just as annoying when you want your guys to actually proceed through the minefield but they stop automatically because there are mines.

That's what the 'fast' command should be for. Just like when crossing a road and not wanting to stop because of suppression.

[Banex]

That's what the 'fast' command should be for. Just like when crossing a road and not wanting to stop because of suppression.

Try moving too quickly through a minefield and you will be lucky if any of your guys make it out of it.Caught in a minefield,without engineers,hit the slow button and go back the way you came in.If it's the only way to go again slow or a risky move forward.At least on slow,they ll crawl and not set of so many mines.Time consuming yes but more chance of your guys staying alive.

[Bulletpoint]

The whole point would be to make troops stop ONLY in the actual moment they spot the mines.

 

Of course it would be annoying, but that's the purpose of mines, obstructing movement and causing terror.

 

Having troops stop would represent a soldier calling out "Sarge, it's a minefield!" and then having you decide what the next order would be.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[Pak40]

That's what the 'fast' command should be for. Just like when crossing a road and not wanting to stop because of suppression.

 

Yea, but running through a mine field, IIRC, has a greater chance of exploding a mine. This is why we need the tip toe command - it will be similar to hunt but your men wont stop when they see an enemy unit.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Pak40

[Pak40]

The whole point would be to make troops stop ONLY in the actual moment they spot the mines.

 

Of course it would be annoying, but that's the purpose of mines, obstructing movement and causing terror.

 

Having troops stop would represent a soldier calling out "Sarge, it's a minefield!" and then having you decide what the next order would be.

 

I see your point but coding this could lead to other problems. For example, Squad 1 steps on a mine and stops immediately. Squad 2 is still 20 meters away - does it also stop immediately? If not, when? I suppose you could code it to stop within 1 AS of the mine square but maybe in reality the mine field is more than that 1 AS and Squad 2 might still end up on top of mines. If you code all units to stop immediately upon seeing the newly discovered mines you'll have units far away stopping for no reason. The game would have to track what units have seen the mines. If the mines are not marked by engineers then it's possibly subsequent units will not even know the mines are there because the original units that discovered them have moved on.

 

I see now why they haven't coded this behavior, it'd be a TacAI nightmare.