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In 'School of Hard Knocks' there's a distant hill with two wooden bunkers on top. You get a platoon of shermans, who happily open fire on those bunkers at around 1200 metres distance.

Weird stuff:

1: the tanks used high explosive rounds. I would have thought they would use AP, that's what they usually do against bunkers.

2: the shots had no effect. They kept shooting loads of rounds, 90 percent hitting the target, but not knocking it out. I thought maybe it was a matter of not being able to verify the kill at range, but when I later ceasefired in dismay, I checked the bunkers and they were just fine. One was empty though.

3: this became a bigger problem for me, as the bunkers acted like magnets for the tanks, causing them to ignore other targets and wasting all their ammo. I tried target arcs but sometimes I would forget this, move the tanks forward and the bunkers would again be within the arc

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Yep, it's particularly frustrating when your units consider a bunker you know to be unmanned a priority target.

If there are other higher priority threats / targets (which, compared to an unmanned bunker there surely are), you just have to skulk out of LOS to the bunker and/or rely on target arcs.

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The question keeps puzzling me: why couldn't the tanks destroy the bunkers? The shells were definitely bang on target.

 

Was it because 75mm HE shells can't hurt wooden pillboxes? And was the reason why they fired HE that the distance was too great for AP-slugs to kill a bunker? I find that doubtful...

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I have a misty memory of there being a bug about bunkers being undestroyable by direct fire. I really am not sure if I am remembering correctly or not. My memory also says it was fixed in a later version. But again that was a while back so I am not 100% sure. Time to do some searching but that will have to wait until later for me.

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The question keeps puzzling me: why couldn't the tanks destroy the bunkers? The shells were definitely bang on target.

 

Was it because 75mm HE shells can't hurt wooden pillboxes? And was the reason why they fired HE that the distance was too great for AP-slugs to kill a bunker? I find that doubtful...

 

I really wish they would allow heavy guns to switch ammo types. I've run into a similar issue using a 20mm halftrack against the British at Arnhem. While normally HE is preferred to take out infantry in "heavy" buildings, the 20mm HE is too weak to penetrate tougher stone buildings. This is one case where AP would be preferable to HE, IMO. Especially with a rapid fire gun.

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I have a misty memory of there being a bug about bunkers being undestroyable by direct fire. I really am not sure if I am remembering correctly or not. My memory also says it was fixed in a later version. But again that was a while back so I am not 100% sure. Time to do some searching but that will have to wait until later for me.

I recall having machine guns destroy wooden bunkers, like they were made of particularly frangible paper, thoroughly soaked... This, I'm sure, was in v2.
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I recall having machine guns destroy wooden bunkers, like they were made of particularly frangible paper, thoroughly soaked... This, I'm sure, was in v2.

 

I've seen repeated rifle/machinegun fire kill all occupants of wooden bunkers, at ranges of about 5-400 metres, but it took a LOT of shooting. Never 'knocking out' those bunkers that way though.

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I've seen repeated rifle/machinegun fire kill all occupants of wooden bunkers, at ranges of about 5-400 metres, but it took a LOT of shooting. Never 'knocking out' those bunkers that way though.

Heck, in v3 I've seen smallarms fire (not even tripod mounts) destroy concrete shelter-type bunkers. Without actually killing any occupants, mind; I thought they'd paniced and run out of the bunker and it was only when I tried to get them to "remount" and they wouldn't that I realised it was destroyed.
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In the first beach assault scenario in The Road To Montberg I blew up a wooden bunker with BAR and MG fire. I was firing away to provide cover for my troops to get inland, and all of a sudden it just blew! No tanks, no mortars on it, not anywhere near close enough for zook or rifle grenades, I thought, what the hell???

After checking the replay, turns out a tracer round (or several) entered the firing port and must have hit the stored ammo in the back. I thought those boxes of ammo there were just for looks. This was before ammo dumps were put in the game. I have no other explanation for the big 'explosion.

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In the first beach assault scenario in The Road To Montberg I blew up a wooden bunker with BAR and MG fire. I was firing away to provide cover for my troops to get inland, and all of a sudden it just blew! No tanks, no mortars on it, not anywhere near close enough for zook or rifle grenades, I thought, what the hell???

After checking the replay, turns out a tracer round (or several) entered the firing port and must have hit the stored ammo in the back. I thought those boxes of ammo there were just for looks. This was before ammo dumps were put in the game. I have no other explanation for the big 'explosion.

 

Never seen that. But I recently played that mission again, and realised bunkers could be suppressed. That was new for me - the enemy inside still show as sitting upright, that's what confused me, but they do stop shooting if you lay enough fire on them. 

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Right, I think there is no cowering animation for bunker occupants which I guess is realistic in the sense that it's simply more difficult to see into the firing slit so you can't tell what the occupants are doing.  

 

But just because you won't see them cower (I think...) doesn't mean their suppression meter isn't pegged!

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I recall in the Scottish corridor campaign taking out a bunker with direct fire from a Piat.... that was with the latest version 3.11....

Also in the Same campaign I'm sure I remember a 95mm gunned Churchill tank destroying a wooden bunker with direct fire and kiling all the occupants, again that was with v3.11.

Edited by highlandcharge
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I recall in the Scottish corridor campaign taking out a bunker with direct fire from a Piat.... that was with the latest version 3.11....

Also in the Same campaign I'm sure I remember a 95mm gunned Churchill tank destroying a wooden bunker with direct fire and kiling all the occupants, again that was with v3.11.

 

Oh, I've seen tanks and AT-weapons take out bunkers lots of times. It's supposed to happen. The question is why it did NOT work this time :)

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I have a misty memory of there being a bug about bunkers being undestroyable by direct fire. I really am not sure if I am remembering correctly or not. My memory also says it was fixed in a later version. But again that was a while back so I am not 100% sure. Time to do some searching but that will have to wait until later for me.

 

I think I found the thread.  I am not sure how applicable it is - though.  Check it out and decide for your self: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/106984-the-titanium-bunker/

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I've just run up against a too-sturdy-to-incapacitate wooden bunker in Road to Montebourg. Half a dozen direct hits from 75mm pack howitzers, some of which looked like they detonated inside the bunker (rather than on the roof) weren't enough to break one bunker... So I did a little test of 5 bunkers vs 5 modules of pack howitzers. 5 full loads of howitzers from Elite guns with Elite spotters (to do everything I could to narrow the sheaf), and one of the bunkers was no longer functional because it had been evactuated. The others were just fine, as were their occupants. I'd do a bigger test, but  wonder whether it's worth it: should wooden bunkers be all but impervious to 75mm arty? Concrete bunkers, I can imagine, and I can see that bunkers would be built to withstand 81mm mortars, but the impact of actual artillery seems more penetrative than even the same weight of filler out of a mortar...

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Fairy muff... my little testlet does indicate that throwing "enough" puny pack popgun rounds "can" do for the thing eventually, I guess; it's just not likely anyone will ever have that many modules to spare to neutralise one bunker. Any ideas why some of the explosions are rendered inside the bunker rather than detonating on the roof, as others are?

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... Any ideas why some of the explosions are rendered inside the bunker rather than detonating on the roof, as others are?

 

I believe that explosions are not necessarily WYSIWYG ( I think I read this in the past when someone asked about a tank shot depiction ).

 

I recently had an experience where I was trying to hit a german flak HT with a 50mm mortar. One of the explosions rendered directly under the vehicle. I was miffed I hadn't knocked it out - especially as the depiction was exactly what I was trying to achieve :rolleyes:

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I believe that explosions are not necessarily WYSIWYG ( I think I read this in the past when someone asked about a tank shot depiction ).

 

 

 

Just the other day I saw a hand grenade drop down into the exact foxhole where an enemy solider was holding out, he wasn't harmed by the explosion though he was basically sitting on the bomb. Then next turn, another grenade landed on the ground some 7 metres behind the foxhole, and that one killed him.

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