AI Artillery Support

[kevinkin]

"Any support assets that are not used up for the pre-planned bombardments are available for the AI

Player to use dynamically during the battle ..."

How is the pre-planned strike defined? I.e via a time factor or as long as observer lives and ammo is available?

Also, I have an idea to delay the pre-planned bombardment by positioning the observers out of LOS and then move them up carefully using 1-2 orders. Is this a good technique to expend the artillery in a

delayed and perhaps more surprising manner?

Kevin

[ASL Veteran]

Pre planned artillery is mapped out in the editor the same way you map out waypoints for AI groups.  You paint the area on the map that you want the artillery to land in.  It will always hit at the beginning of the game and there is no way to delay it and no AI forces need to have LOS to the location in order for the artillery to begin firing. 

 

Your plan could work, but the AI would have to decide to use the artillery on its own without any intervention on your part via pre planned artillery strikes.  You could possibly help the AI decide to use the artillery by placing TRPs (target reference points) but ultimately the AI needs to do it on its own.

[kevinkin]

From Engine manual:

When Support Targets are specified, all Artillery and Air Support Assets allocated to that side’s force are considered available for the AI to use. The only requirement is that a valid spotter have line of sight (LOS) to the designated target(s) in order to initiate the strike. All normal support rules apply such as C2 links, delay times, etc.

Is this true? I have not tested, but it appears not true based on game play.

Kevin

[ASL Veteran]

Yes, it is true with the exception of a pre planned artillery strike at the beginning of the game.  No spotters need to have LOS to the location of a pre planned artillery strike at the beginning of a game whether the artillery is controlled by the AI or the player.  The only difference is that the AI has to have the artillery strike location painted on the map in the editor by the scenario designer, otherwise the AI will not conduct a pre planned artillery strike on its own.  I am going to assume that the manual is using 'When Support Targets are specified', it means 'Specified' by the AI during the course of a game and not 'Specified' by the designer when creating pre planned artillery strikes.  Otherwise the second sentence doesn't make sense with regard to LOS.  If you play a scenario using 'Scenario Author Test Mode' you can select different AI controlled units on the map and all their artillery target lines will be displayed for you to see so you can confirm this pretty easily on your own by play testing your scenario.  The AI doesn't always use artillery in the most efficient way though because it frequently has company or platoon commanders calling in artillery strikes instead of more effective FOs who can call artillery in more quickly.  The only thing that you can be sure an FO will call in is some form of artillery that regular troops can't call in because the type of artillery is prohibited to be used by them.

[kevinkin]

Thanks for clearing that up. I will give the creeping AI FO tactic a test to have shells fall say 10 plus turns into the battle closer to the AI's defense line. Is it known if the AI uses area, point, or linear targeting?

Kevin

[ASL Veteran]

Thanks for clearing that up. I will give the creeping AI FO tactic a test to have shells fall say 10 plus turns into the battle closer to the AI's defense line. Is it known if the AI uses area, point, or linear targeting?

Kevin

You have no control over when or how the AI uses the artillery if you haven't set a start of game bombardment by painting the areas on the map and there is no delay function that you can add to the start of game bombardment.  The start of game bombardment happens at the start of the game or it doesn't happen at all.  In other words, you can have your FO creep (sort of, because there really isn't an AI move command that will get him to 'creep') but once he is in position there is no way for you to tell him what to do because there are no AI commands for telling him what you want him to do.  The best you can do is have the FO move into the position you want him to be in and then hope that he decides to call artillery in after he gets there.  He may decide to call it or he may not, but there is nothing you can do to have him call the artillery in at 'Time X' because there just isn't any AI orders for that in the game as it stands.

 

The AI typically uses a circular area fire pattern, although the pattern is usually a little smaller than I would personally use so that makes the barrage more concentrated.

Edited February 25, 2015 by ASL Veteran

[kohlenklau]

AI doesn't seem to use TRP's in all my tests.

AI will plot area circles, line and spot. 

a thread I had on AI stuff including AI FO's.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/117354-having-a-little-fun-with-ai-triggers/

At first I had no success:

I still haven't got the AI to delay firing the mortars. I tried bringing them in as R1 at 5 minutes. No joy. I tried bringing the FO or Platoon leader in as R1 at 05:00 but the mortars didn't wait for him and just started off at turn 1.

The best I have got is to bring the mortar in at R1 05:00 but with some LOS (beam in at the exact perfect spot) to likely player approach. Put them on severe ammo so they only have a dozen rounds anyway. 

But I think I will run more tests because I now think I recall in one scenario I wrote "Garden of the Iron Cross" seeing that the Soviet company HQ had a greenline to target mortars farther along into the game but only when it had LOS and actually spotted the enemy. And that was with a mortar team sent in as R1. So maybe it will work...

 

 

 

 

then I did

 

AI Mortar success!

 

I had 2 different FO's on map from start and placed them in good spots with LOS.

Then made the actual mortars show at R1=5, R2=10, R3=15.

I deployed them to make sure that the FO had them in contact. And a platoon HQ as well. Responsible adult types with radios.

 

The mortars do spend a turn deploying upon arrival. 

But then pretty soon the board lights up with pretty green lines. If someone carelessly is spotted. 

This one FO had 2 different missions going. They appear to take the normal long times to get the mission set-up. 5 minutes, 7 minutes, 9 minutes. They do fire spotting rounds and adjust.

A round too far left, a bit later a round too far right, a bit later one more or less on target, then a bit later, 4 rounds. bam bam bam bam. 

It wasn't on the area of the AI plans Support Targets Axis. The platoon HQ also set-up a mission.

 

Unfortunately, it can't happen at night or when viz is very low due to fog or smoke.

 

So, this could be part of an AI defense plan for a scenario or also for AI on the attack. You don't need to get the initial preplanned barrage style from turn 1. It could come later on...

Actually, I now recall I did use an off-map mortar team that came in at R2. So, you could sprinkle low supply off-map mortar teams in with your R groups. They don't take up an AI slot either.

A prolonged defensive mortaring to make every round count. Come on ostfront winter module!

 

 

[kevinkin]

Thanks guys. I do understand the rules discussed in the Manual but was looking for a predictable work around.

If I find a solution that works most of the time in a specific scenario I would be happy. I will try a few things and report

any useful findings.

Kevin

[Combatintman]

Thanks guys. I do understand the rules discussed in the Manual but was looking for a predictable work around.

If I find a solution that works most of the time in a specific scenario I would be happy. I will try a few things and report

any useful findings.

Kevin

I really wouldn't bother mate - Kohenklau has pretty much described the solution in post #7. You just need to apply that to your map and adjust the timings as required.  You will never get a 100% solution with AI artillery with the engine as it is right now.

[kevinkin]

I divided half of the mortars (81mm)for the support pre-planned strike and the rest (120mmm) using Kohenklau's tactic and it works well in one trial so far. And like was said, depending on the visibility and the map, it's an option to think about when designing. We all like options. Appeared pretty realistictoo.

Kevin

[GhostRider3/3]

"Any support assets that are not used up for the pre-planned bombardments are available for the AI

Player to use dynamically during the battle ..."

How is the pre-planned strike defined? I.e via a time factor or as long as observer lives and ammo is available?

Also, I have an idea to delay the pre-planned bombardment by positioning the observers out of LOS and then move them up carefully using 1-2 orders. Is this a good technique to expend the artillery in a

delayed and perhaps more surprising manner?

Kevin

The other way I have had the AI engage in artillery is to make the FO its separate group, and to "Support" using the Artificial Intel options.  basically I believe you can paint the area you want the "FO" to Support.  just make sure he can see the areas in question, then the FO will use Artillery.  Not sure this helps. Other then that if the AI is Defensive I think they call Artillery more often as they see the enemy.. but TRP are good to have for AI.

[kohlenklau]

This was always an interesting topic...

[kohlenklau]

@Canuck21