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More spotting questions


apd1004

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If it is a company or battalion commander's vehicle, then the CO in the HQ team is filling the commander's seat in the Bradley, and thus gaining the benefit of the CITV.  If this does not lead to the gunner spotting the unit then there might be a bug, but it might also be an edge case where the gunner's primary sight can't see the target for some reason.

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I thought I posted this already...but guess not.

 

I have seen this issue since CMSF, all the way through CMRT.  It seems to not happen as much in the WW 2 titles.  But See it a couple times a scenarios where a stryker has a passenger that sees an enemy unit 1-2 turns before the crew.

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Stryker passenger case is normal I think, as they have their heads poking outta the vehicle. The passengers even shoot their M4s when the bad guy's close enough...

The Bradley case is weird indeed. But the unpredictability of CM spotting means bugs in this area are very hard to repro I reckon.

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I just ran a test...

 

Stryker with a scout team.  All parameters normal.

 

BMP3M with a scout team.  All parameters normal.

 

At 1000m  the scout team mounted in the BMP3M spotted the Stryker after about 20 sec.  It took another 40 sec. for the BMP3M to spot it.

 

The Stryker and the scout team spotted the BMP3M at the same time within...20 sec.

 

The were no unbuttoned units.  All hatches were closed.

 

So why would the mounted scout team spot the Stryker almost 40 sec. before the BMP3 gunner?  No differences in motivation, morale, or leadership.

 

I wanted to upload the save of turn 1, but its too big.

 

edit...ran it four more times.  With the exception of one time where it took 90 sec for all the Russian units to spot the Stryker, the scout team spotted the Stryker 15-25 sec. before the BMP3M on average.

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If it is a company or battalion commander's vehicle, then the CO in the HQ team is filling the commander's seat in the Bradley, and thus gaining the benefit of the CITV.  If this does not lead to the gunner spotting the unit then there might be a bug, but it might also be an edge case where the gunner's primary sight can't see the target for some reason.

In that situation then the CO is the vehicle crew and upon spotting a target he would have issued a fire command to the gunner. CITV is part of the fire control system so in CMBS terms that should count as the crew spotting.

 

In my situation from the first post, the scenario is the first campaign scenario from the 3-69 campaign and the BFV in question is the scout section leader (rank SSG).

 

There needs to be immediate hand-off to the vehicle crew when a passenger spots something. A buttoned up passenger shouldn't even be spotting anything but lets give them the benefit of maybe spotting something out one of the vision blocks. Still, you get on the intercom and alert the crew.  

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In this case the scout section leader is in the vehicle commander seat, so is using the CITV and should be able to spot.  The delay between his spotting a target and the vehicle spotting the target is the concern, as is the potential player confusion caused by having the spotting displayed separately.

 

I ran a comparative test of M2A3s with dedicated 3-man crews and M2A3s with a passenger filling the commander seat, and although my first impression was that the vehicles with passenger commanders were at a spotting / engaging time disadvantage, a few runs did not seem to bear this out.  It would take a lot of runs and careful recording and comparison of times to draw firm conclusions.  However, it is possible that vehicles with passenger commanders are just letting us see what is happening under the hood (the hand-off from commander) in a vehicle with a full dedicated crew.  But regardless the delay is a concern, especially with a hunter-killer capable IFV like the M2A3/M3A3, and has been raised with the devs.

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Just because something happens sometimes does not mean it happens all the time. Spotting is highly variable. You can't look at three or four instances of the commander spotting something first and conclude that the commander always spots first.

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