apd1004 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Not sure I get how an infantry unit mounted on a closed Bradley can see enemy dismounted infantry, but the Bradley itself can't see them? Capture7 by apd1004, on Flickr 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I have seen this happen a lot as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Looks like a bug, please report it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If it is a company or battalion commander's vehicle, then the CO in the HQ team is filling the commander's seat in the Bradley, and thus gaining the benefit of the CITV. If this does not lead to the gunner spotting the unit then there might be a bug, but it might also be an edge case where the gunner's primary sight can't see the target for some reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I thought I posted this already...but guess not. I have seen this issue since CMSF, all the way through CMRT. It seems to not happen as much in the WW 2 titles. But See it a couple times a scenarios where a stryker has a passenger that sees an enemy unit 1-2 turns before the crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Stryker passenger case is normal I think, as they have their heads poking outta the vehicle. The passengers even shoot their M4s when the bad guy's close enough...The Bradley case is weird indeed. But the unpredictability of CM spotting means bugs in this area are very hard to repro I reckon. Edited February 23, 2015 by Skwabie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Really? I would have thought all the thermals and optics on the RWS would have allowed better spotting than anyone unbuttoned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I just ran a test... Stryker with a scout team. All parameters normal. BMP3M with a scout team. All parameters normal. At 1000m the scout team mounted in the BMP3M spotted the Stryker after about 20 sec. It took another 40 sec. for the BMP3M to spot it. The Stryker and the scout team spotted the BMP3M at the same time within...20 sec. The were no unbuttoned units. All hatches were closed. So why would the mounted scout team spot the Stryker almost 40 sec. before the BMP3 gunner? No differences in motivation, morale, or leadership. I wanted to upload the save of turn 1, but its too big. edit...ran it four more times. With the exception of one time where it took 90 sec for all the Russian units to spot the Stryker, the scout team spotted the Stryker 15-25 sec. before the BMP3M on average. Edited February 23, 2015 by Thewood1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apd1004 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 If it is a company or battalion commander's vehicle, then the CO in the HQ team is filling the commander's seat in the Bradley, and thus gaining the benefit of the CITV. If this does not lead to the gunner spotting the unit then there might be a bug, but it might also be an edge case where the gunner's primary sight can't see the target for some reason. In that situation then the CO is the vehicle crew and upon spotting a target he would have issued a fire command to the gunner. CITV is part of the fire control system so in CMBS terms that should count as the crew spotting. In my situation from the first post, the scenario is the first campaign scenario from the 3-69 campaign and the BFV in question is the scout section leader (rank SSG). There needs to be immediate hand-off to the vehicle crew when a passenger spots something. A buttoned up passenger shouldn't even be spotting anything but lets give them the benefit of maybe spotting something out one of the vision blocks. Still, you get on the intercom and alert the crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) In this case the scout section leader is in the vehicle commander seat, so is using the CITV and should be able to spot. The delay between his spotting a target and the vehicle spotting the target is the concern, as is the potential player confusion caused by having the spotting displayed separately. I ran a comparative test of M2A3s with dedicated 3-man crews and M2A3s with a passenger filling the commander seat, and although my first impression was that the vehicles with passenger commanders were at a spotting / engaging time disadvantage, a few runs did not seem to bear this out. It would take a lot of runs and careful recording and comparison of times to draw firm conclusions. However, it is possible that vehicles with passenger commanders are just letting us see what is happening under the hood (the hand-off from commander) in a vehicle with a full dedicated crew. But regardless the delay is a concern, especially with a hunter-killer capable IFV like the M2A3/M3A3, and has been raised with the devs. Edited February 24, 2015 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 At least these issues are being looked into by the dev team. BMP-3M should have better spotting ability than the scout team inside. The commander only has IR optic whereas BMP-3M has TI gunner sight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Just because something happens sometimes does not mean it happens all the time. Spotting is highly variable. You can't look at three or four instances of the commander spotting something first and conclude that the commander always spots first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 All I can say is run the tests...I don't have the time to run n iterations that would satisfy someone at BFC. If you want to have continuous improvement in the product, customer feedback is usually the seed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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