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The mighty IS-2


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I had two platoons of Tigers engage two platoons of IS-2s from 800-600 yds. The result? Three IS-2s knocked out for the loss of all of my Tigers. Lots of 88 rounds bounced off the IS-2s and even when my Tigers scored a penetration that didn't always mean that they would succeed in knocking out the IS-2, while the IS-2s only needed to score one hit a Tiger to completely destroy it. I'm not sure I'll try to engage IS-2s head on with anything other than King Tigers from now on. 

 

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I was losing IS-2s to Stugs at 1000m+ in the soviet campaign, so I'm not sure why you're having trouble penetrating their armour with the 88 on a Tiger.

Because the front hull cannot be penetrated by an 88.

When engaging IS-2s distance is your friend. Their weakness is their slow rate of fire. For that to be a factor the IS-2 has to miss at least its first shot.

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Real life data suggests upper frontal hull of IS-2(M/Late?) ~240mm LOS. Penetrations by 88L/56 can only occur on the turret or the lower front hull. But the AI aims center mass. Tiger armor does not stop a 122mm round at any practical range. Tiger I, 0 : IS-2 1.

The 88mm has RoF advantage. 122mm has energy past armor advantage. Which means while the 88L/56 hits more often, more penetrating hits are needed to achieve a KO. Tiger I, 1 : IS-2, 2.

So in total: IS-2 > Tiger I.

It gets more interesting when comparing Tiger2 to IS-2. Neither can penetrate the other's upper frontal hull. Both can penetrate the other's lower frontal hull. The frontal turret of Tiger2 offers some resistence to the 122 round, resulting full to partial penetrations. The gun mantlet of Tiger2 provides no resistence against the 122mm at all (which is strange). The IS-2 turret provides no resistence against the 88L/71 round.

The 122mm round still has advantage on energy past armor but not much. The 88L/71 has a better RoF.

In total Tiger 2 > IS-2. (No points given because it's not as clear cut.)

All evidence drawn from in-game tests.

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Because the front hull cannot be penetrated by an 88.

When engaging IS-2s distance is your friend. Their weakness is their slow rate of fire. For that to be a factor the IS-2 has to miss at least its first shot.

I think the Front Hull can be penetrated by a Tiger !, you just have to be within 300m.  I thought I got that info from Thomas L. Jentz Tiger 1 book.  and is the JS-2 slow rate of Fire really modeled in game?  I know they only have 28 rounds, and at best could fire around 3 rounds per minute... its astonishing to think after about 30min or combat, they could well be useless and out of ammo.

 

I did another large test recently between the JS1 and the Tiger I.  Starting range was 2000m open field, 8 tanks apiece.  Tested 5 times.

1.  All JS tanks destroyed for 3 Tiger1 and 1 immobilized

2.  All JS tanks destroyed for 2 Tiger 1 and 3 immobilized

3.  All JS tanks destroyed for 4 Tigers destroyed

4.  All JS tanks destroyed for 2 Tigers and 1 immobilized

5.  All JS tanks destroyed for 3 Tigers and 2 immobilized, and one crew Bailed out, but was able to re enter their tank.

 

I may do another test with JS2, but in all regards, the King Tiger was the new Tank Killer aimed at taking out Russian tanks.  I think the goal was to Replace all Tiger 1 battalions with the Tiger II, and replace all Pz. IV tanks with the Panther, although the Germans were to achieve this.  Anyways I will run a test with JS2 vs Tiger1.

 

 

88 mm KwK 43 L/71 Penetration Data:  

                                   PzGr. 39/43   (APCBC) PzGr. 40/43     (APCR) Gr. 39/3 HL     (HEAT)

Shell Weight: 0.2 Kgs                       7.3 Kgs                 7.65 Kgs Initial velocity: 1000 m/sec. 1030 m/sec. 600 m/sec. Range       100 m 202 mm 238 mm 90 mm 500 m 185 mm 217 mm 90 mm

                  1000 m 165 mm 193 mm 90 mm 1500 m 148 mm 171 mm 90 mm

                   2000 m 132 mm 153 mm 90 mm

 

Source: JENTZ, Thomas L.; Kingtiger Heavy Tank: 1942 - 1945; ISBN 185532 282 X

Edited by GhostRider3/3
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I think the Front Hull can be penetrated by a Tiger !, you just have to be within 300m.

The lower hull, yes, although I don't remember at what ranges. The upper hull is impervious to anything except the 128mm gun on the Jagdtiger, which didn't even fight in the East. 

and is the JS-2 slow rate of Fire really modeled in game?

Of course it is, although the IS-2 "mid" and "late" with the D-25 cannon are a little less slow than the "early" IS-2 armed with a A-19 cannon.

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....

IS has gone through some revisions. It's even on wiki apparently.

IS-2_scheme_of_armour.jpg

The upper hull scheme depicts early version (IS-1 in game uses it). Lower hull scheme is the late version (IS-2 in game).

The 88L/56 can penetrate early version's driver slit area (w/ 120mm thickness). The late version modeled in game as 120mm sloped at 60deg is impervious to anything other than 128mm on the Jagdtiger as Vanir says.

(It seems that Jentz isn't very detailed at times...)

Edited by Skwabie
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IS has gone through some revisions. It's even on wiki apparently.

IS-2_scheme_of_armour.jpg

The upper hull scheme depicts early version (IS-1 in game uses it). Lower hull scheme is the late version (IS-2 in game).

The 88L/56 can penetrate early version's driver slit area (w/ 120mm thickness). The late version modeled in game as 120mm sloped at 60deg is impervious to anything other than 128mm on the Jagdtiger as Vanir says.

(It seems that Jentz isn't very detailed at times...)

  s

Yes indeed, I know Jentz wrote a lot on German armor.  Yes the drawing makes it quite clear of the shot trap on the JS1.  This weekend I am doing a test of JS2 vs King Tigers. starting at a range of 2500m to 800m

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