Pelican Pal Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When I played CM:SF I almost exclusively played OpFor. Nothing quite like setting up well executed ambushes against your PBEM opponent to teach them that the OpFor does in fact have teeth. I remember one particular game where I had a UnCon spend 15 minutes crawling down a ditch to RPG a Bradley.. Actually I'm not sure if he plays CM:BS, but I also did that to one of Scipio's FSV Strykers. I think I lost the match, but it was fun to do anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I definitely DON'T want them updating CMSF 2's setting; Keep it Syria, keep the time frame (but they could expand it beyond a couple months). At this point it has history, even if it's fictitious history, it's our history, that we all helped create. I just wanna see them update it to the new engine and such, maybe add some extra equipment/forces if we are lucky. The newest bells and whistles will really add a lot of depth to it. They could always create a spinoff module for some newer setting or what have you, but c'mon, leave CMSF in Syria, circa 2008. Mord. Edited February 12, 2015 by Mord 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I definitely DON'T want them updating CMSF 2's setting; Keep it Syria, keep the time frame (but they could expand it beyond a couple months). At this point it has history, even if it's fictitious history, it's our history, that we all helped create. It is our history - a history I loved participating in. But lets make new history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well think this through: Shock Force wouldn't really be Shock Force if it wasn't set in the Middle East right? So since you pretty much are arguing against a asymmetrical warfare themed CM game, which means arguing against ever continuing Shock Force, because having a non-asymmetrical war set in the Mid East (with NATO involvement) seems pretty implausible. So if you don't care for AW thats fine, but don't spoil everybody else's fun Also, having a CMSF 2 set in more recent time or even in the future would probably just shift the balance even more towards the conventional force's side, with APS, platoon level drones, etc. What a large part of CMSF was about, was detecting and neutralizing hidden ATGM positions before they could cause harm. APS take a lot of the excitement out of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think those stating CMSF is a walkover are being a bit unfair; some of the missions can be very challenging, especially where you are required to undertake MOUT. Those missions without heavy armour support (Stryker or LAV at best) are no walkover, especially if opfor has decent anti-tank capability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If I recall the original release was definitely a bit of a cake walk. After Marines though things got a lot more interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well think this through: Shock Force wouldn't really be Shock Force if it wasn't set in the Middle East right? So since you pretty much are arguing against a asymmetrical warfare themed CM game, which means arguing against ever continuing Shock Force, because having a non-asymmetrical war set in the Mid East (with NATO involvement) seems pretty implausible. So if you don't care for AW thats fine, but don't spoil everybody else's fun Also, having a CMSF 2 set in more recent time or even in the future would probably just shift the balance even more towards the conventional force's side, with APS, platoon level drones, etc. What a large part of CMSF was about, was detecting and neutralizing hidden ATGM positions before they could cause harm. APS take a lot of the excitement out of that. Just my opinion mate. If they release CMSF 2 I'll be at the front of the queue to buy it even though I'm a bit 'ho-hum' about revisiting the setting with its gross force imbalances. It was a very fun game once the original bugs were ironed out and I bought all the modules that were eventually released. It's actually hard to think of a modern setting for anything other than AS warfare. Maybe Battlefront should do a Cold War gone hot game or Arab-Israeli Wars type setting. Even 'Tet Offensive' if infantry got a bit of work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If I recall the original release was definitely a bit of a cake walk. After Marines though things got a lot more interesting. Nato German campaign was difficult due to lack of infantry. Again though it was more about force preservation than being scared the OPFOR would win the battle. Come to think of it in scenarios this didn't even matter that much it was the campaigns where casualties really mattered as in the next battle you'd be even poorer for boots on the ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zveroboy1 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It would be nice if BF upgraded Shock Force's engine but really it is entirely playable as it is now. You will miss a bunch of features compared to the latest games like no shaders, no armor covered arcs or target quick commands etc.... but the game hasn't been rendered obsolete imo. In other words the differences between SF and BS aren't as big as some people make them out to be. The game was really rough around the edges when first published but with all the patches and modules, it was pretty solid and it still is. That doesn't mean I don't want an upgrade if that's possible , all I am saying if that it is still an enjoyable game, just missing a couple of features that are no show stopper. So if you have skipped it or someone is considering buying it because they like modern warfare, or revisiting it, go ahead, it is still a fun game, just missing a few bells and whistles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) It would be nice if BF upgraded Shock Force's engine but really it is entirely playable as it is now. You will miss a bunch of features compared to the latest games like no shaders, no armor covered arcs or target quick commands etc.... but the game hasn't been rendered obsolete imo. In other words the differences between SF and BS aren't as big as some people make them out to be. The game was really rough around the edges when first published but with all the patches and modules, it was pretty solid and it still is. That doesn't mean I don't want an upgrade if that's possible , all I am saying if that it is still an enjoyable game, just missing a couple of features that are no show stopper. So if you have skipped it or someone is considering buying it because they like modern warfare, or revisiting it, go ahead, it is still a fun game, just missing a few bells and whistles. Funnily enough, it would be hard for me to summarise the differences outside of the graphical enhancements and order refinements, but CMBS feels quite a bit different. The armour feedback is really good. The machine gunners are a different world to CMSF Edited February 12, 2015 by Sulman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It would be nice if BF upgraded Shock Force's engine but really it is entirely playable as it is now. You will miss a bunch of features compared to the latest games like no shaders, no armor covered arcs or target quick commands etc.... but the game hasn't been rendered obsolete imo. In other words the differences between SF and BS aren't as big as some people make them out to be. The game was really rough around the edges when first published but with all the patches and modules, it was pretty solid and it still is. That doesn't mean I don't want an upgrade if that's possible , all I am saying if that it is still an enjoyable game, just missing a couple of features that are no show stopper. So if you have skipped it or someone is considering buying it because they like modern warfare, or revisiting it, go ahead, it is still a fun game, just missing a few bells and whistles. That's a very good point Zveroboy1. CMSF is still a very playable game - barring an improvement in graphics and a few missing orders what is there really to add? Drones and AMS will only make the game more of a walkover against the OPFOR. Even the graphics and sounds can be dramatically improved from stock with the available mods. Seems a waste to go back in time and release CMSF 2 and possibly a load of modules and have basically the same game as CMSF at the end of its development cycle. In my opinion we already have great AS warfare in the Middle-East with CMSF. Why not move forward to a different setting instead of reliving the past with a few extra tweaks to graphics and user commands? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 MANPADS, movable waypoints, armor arcs, target briefly, vehicle hit text, better UI, onmap mortars, greatly improved editor (performancewise and featurewise), greater small arms effectiveness, casualties stay in squad view, amphibious vehicles (USCM AAV!), improved foliage draw distance, larger maps, those are the things that more or less spontaneously came to my mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 MANPADS, movable waypoints, armor arcs, target briefly, vehicle hit text, better UI, onmap mortars, greatly improved editor (performancewise and featurewise), greater small arms effectiveness, casualties stay in squad view, amphibious vehicles (USCM AAV!), improved foliage draw distance, larger maps, those are the things that more or less spontaneously came to my mind. All that would be very nice. But when playing CMSF I hardly miss any of them - they don't change the core of the gameplay. Is it worth the time and investment away from other settings to relive CMSF with some extra features? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 For me personally the answer is yes - my personal favorites are the modern stuff and WW2 Eastern Front. But since doing a remake of CMSF would obviously be a much simpler task than designing a new game from scratch, doing so and selling those at full or near full price (I'd pay either and it seems a lot of others would do as well) would probably also make sense business wise. At least that's my perception. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zveroboy1 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I am all for BF updating it don't get me wrong, just saying it is still an enjoyable game and doesn't feel as archaic or obsolete as some comments suggest. I have read people call it CM 1.5 but really it is basically the same engine, it is more like SF is CM 2 and what we have now is CM 2.3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am all for BF updating it don't get me wrong, just saying it is still an enjoyable game and doesn't feel as archaic or obsolete as some comments suggest. I have read people call it CM 1.5 but really it is basically the same engine, it is more like SF is CM 2 and what we have now is CM 2.3. I think a lot of that is from people that spent a short amount of time in CMSF before CMBN came out and have convinced themselves they're totally different games. I wrote elsewhere it's strange as a Shock Force player to see so many people enjoying Black Sea. My instinct is to say "where have you been?". World War 2 is the answer. Still, this is a very nice problem to have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am all for BF updating it don't get me wrong, just saying it is still an enjoyable game and doesn't feel as archaic or obsolete as some comments suggest. I have read people call it CM 1.5 but really it is basically the same engine, it is more like SF is CM 2 and what we have now is CM 2.3. Yeah you are right. The only thing I really miss are the hit texts I think. Still it is a perfectly fine and playable game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am all for BF updating it don't get me wrong, just saying it is still an enjoyable game and doesn't feel as archaic or obsolete as some comments suggest. I have read people call it CM 1.5 but really it is basically the same engine, it is more like SF is CM 2 and what we have now is CM 2.3. It's basically the same game as CMBN, CMFI, CMRT and CMBS but missing a few bells and whistles - some of which can be added with mods. It's still very playable. I don't feel it's worth the time or effort to add those bells and whistles when a new setting could be concentrated on instead. Saying that I'd still purchase an upgrade - and that is all it would be - if it was released. But then again I'd buy anything released under the CM umbrella of titles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I think a lot of that is from people that spent a short amount of time in CMSF before CMBN came out and have convinced themselves they're totally different games. I wrote elsewhere it's strange as a Shock Force player to see so many people enjoying Black Sea. My instinct is to say "where have you been?". World War 2 is the answer. Still, this is a very nice problem to have. SF got a lot of hate on release. I wasn't at all happy when I fired up the original game - I stopped playing and only returned to it months later. With patches and modules it eventually found its feet and could stand proudly with any other CM game but I think it never won back the love it lost by many due to its starting issues. I may be wrong but I also seem to remember a lot of people not being impressed by the setting or the OPFOR being so weak compared to previous titles. It was a big jump from WW2 CMBB, CMBO and CMAK to AS warfare in a modern setting in Syria. Edited February 13, 2015 by niall78 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Not sure why we have to have an either/or. How about they update CMSF in its original setting while continuing the modern series in other settings? We can have our cake and eat it too, it just takes patience. Assuming Steve maintains his position about not wanting to do APAC, the focus of titles does have limits. BF has the rest of the eastern front, another Italian module, the "Bulge" game and then? Assuming that is 4 families, they have done that pretty much in just the last few years. Really the next big thing is gonna be what do they cover when they get to do the next iteration of the engine? Start all over? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 That's true. In the last 4 years we have gotten 4 titles, 3 modules and a Vehicle pack. Battlefront really is on a roll now (I know, not fast enough for some). Maybe there will be diminishing returns for them as there are more and more choices and perhaps that will limit new projects ( I can't read their minds) but these are really good times for Combat Mission fans. I do hope some third party again decides to do something unusual like we had with CM:Afghanistan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Not sure why we have to have an either/or. How about they update CMSF in its original setting while continuing the modern series in other settings? We can have our cake and eat it too, it just takes patience. Patience? For me it isn't a matter of patience. No other company is ever going to make a product like CM - it is a wet dream for a guy like me who grew up with hex wargames, table-top and PC games like M1 tank platoon, John Tiller and Empire softwares 'Campaigns'. I just want to see CM tackle other settings like Cold War gone hot, Vietnam, Pacific WW2, African Bush Wars, Iran-Iraq War, Arab-Israeli Wars and a whole lot more before revisiting AS warfare in Syria. I want this from Battlefront because no other company is capable of fufilling my desires for tactical gaming of such conflicts. I don't lack patience - I'm just greedy for more settings because I know only BF can do them justice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhedgwich Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 no make more ww2 games =D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 no make more ww2 games =D That is a time period that could be certainly be expanded on. Invasion of Poland (both USSR and German), Battle of France, Battle of the Low countries, the desert war, Barbarossa, the Pacific (both island hopping and the Burma campaign), China, Spanish Civil War, Operation Sealion (for a what-if) - my mouth waters just thinking of the possibilities. Early WW2 is also much more interesting in terms of units than late war. CMBB's early war battles were probably my all time favourite when playing CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The MG code of CMx2 v2.0 is something that I dearly miss in CMSF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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