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Thermobaric Ammo, and other ammo types


Sublime
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Ok HEDP - High Explosive Dual Purpose. Can we please get explanations for some of the other ammo types that are Acronyms, specifically with infantry warheads for RPGS and XM25s?  Yes I did look at the manual

I know thermobaric ammo is made use against human opponents, but am interested - what exactly does thermobaric ammo do when it goes off to kill?

Edited by Sublime
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It's basically a small fuel-air bomb that quickly burns out all of the air in a given space creating a sudden vacuum. The effect is most useful when the weapon is fired into a building or enclosed space where it can literally collapse the entire structure in an implosion. The explosive uses the raw force of a detonation rather than fragmentation. 

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Wikipedia put's it quite nicely. And no it does not create vacuum all tho it uses all of the oxygen in enclosed space but the real killer is the strong, relatively slow, sustained blast wave. Think it as a flamethrower stuck inside a grenade. Some thermobaric weapons have been designed to clear minefields by producing a high enough pressure from air burst so that it detonates all mines in certain radius. AFAIK Russians possess some very handy explosive mine clearance systems.

 

Wikipedia:

A thermobaric weapon is a type of explosive that utilizes oxygen from the surrounding air to generate an intense, high-temperature explosion, and in practice the blast wave such a weapon produces is typically significantly longer in duration than a conventional condensed explosive. The fuel-air bomb is one of the most well-known types of thermobaric weapons.

Most conventional explosives consist of a fuel-oxidizer premix (gunpowder, for example, contains 25% fuel and 75% oxidizer), whereas thermobaric weapons are almost 100% fuel, so thermobaric weapons are significantly more energetic than conventional condensed explosives of equal weight. Their reliance on atmospheric oxygen makes them unsuitable for use underwater, at high altitude, and in adverse weather. They do, however, cause considerably more destruction when used inside confined environments such as tunnels, caves, and bunkers - partly due to the sustained blast wave, and partly by consuming the available oxygen inside those confined spaces.

Edited by H1nd
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Yes, except why wikipedia when there are DEFINITELY people on this board who know the types of ammo used and their effects, instead of compiling a list of the at least 10+ warhead types from in game, bc as far as I can tell the warhead types are not in the manual

 

example - APFSDS?

Armor Piercing Fin ** discarding sabot?

 

quick side question - If all US forces can call in Air support, whats the use of the JTAC specifically?  Because I noticed a Bradley B-FIST calling in an airstrike can call it in a minute earlier than a JTAC team.  Obviously a JTAC can call it in sooner than say, a regular HQ unit... but.. are JTACs in just because theyre part of the OOB in real life?

Edited by Sublime
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on

example - APFSDS?

Armor Piercing Fin ** discarding sabot?

...Fin Stabalized...

Like fletching (feathers) on an arrow. Instead of putting a spin on a bullet like most rifled barrels on most guns, sabots get fins. The British Tank "Challenger" is one of the few modern MBT (Main Battle Tank) that has a rifled barrel.

Sabot is pronounced "Say- boh". (French word)

The more you know...

Edited by gunnersman
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I know how to pronounce sabot  =)  And yes I also know what a sabot does - its basically a big dart. The shell folds off in flight leaving a big @$$ dart with a lot of penetrating power.

It means shoe in French correct?

Edited by Sublime
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I know how to pronounce sabot  =)  And yes I also know what a sabot does - its basically a big dart. The shell folds off in flight leaving a big @$$ dart with a lot of penetrating power.

It means shoe in French correct?

In French, it's more specifically a wooden shoe (a clog, I think, in English?). It's also the word for an animal's hoof, and then there's a whole host of other meanings which derive more or less directly from those. As for its use in artillery, my understanding is that wooden sabots were used with round ball amunition in the 19th century (the wikipedia article shows a couple examples), and you could say that thoses looked kinda like wooden shoes for the shells.

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In French, it's more specifically a wooden shoe (a clog, I think, in English?).

Yeah: "clog" is a better translation of sabot than "shoe". It's specifically a wooden-soled overshoe worn to protect lighter footwear in damaging (i.e. industrial) environments. Cheap to replace and tough. Tough enough to clog up the works... [did you see what I did there?]
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Sabot is pronounced "Say- boh". (French word)

The more you know...

Minor Quibble #1: It's only pronounced "say-boh" by Americans, similar to the way only (some) Americans say "eye-rack" for Iraq. :) Sabot is actually pronounced "sabbow" by everybody I know and by French people. ;)

And yes I also know what a sabot does - its basically a big dart. The shell folds off in flight leaving a big @$$ dart with a lot of penetrating power.

Minor Quibble #2: The sabot is the 'shell' or casing which folds off in flight. As far as I know, the high-density penetrator is just called a dart.

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In US use:

 

1. The round itself is usually referred to as "sabot."  I'd characterize is closer to "saybow" in pronunciation but that's just me.   

 

2. The part that burns up in the tube is the "casing," the metal end of the shell that ejects out the bore is called the "aft cap," the actual sabot parts are called "sabot petals" and there's three of them.  The "Dart" is actually just referred to as the "penetrator"   

 

3. The aft cap makes an excellent ash tray and parting gift when you separate from an organization.  They're harder to get your mitts on though because they're also the way the Army tracks and confirms the round was expended in training.  Sabot petals and training penetrators are popular souvenirs, and many tankers wind up with a few of them.  They're easier to get because you'll find them just laying out on the range after a gunnery, and once it's left the gun tube the Army doesn't care (mostly) what happens to them.  Training HEAT rounds too, but they seem to be less common for whatever reasons.  The other popular items are the pellets and canister parts from canister rounds (the pellets are pretty easy to find, you just sift the sand at the base of the canister shell target array and you'll find a few).

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Yes, except why wikipedia when there are DEFINITELY people on this board who know the types of ammo used and their effects, instead of compiling a list of the at least 10+ warhead types from in game, bc as far as I can tell the warhead types are not in the manual

 

example - APFSDS?

Armor Piercing Fin ** discarding sabot?

 

quick side question - If all US forces can call in Air support, whats the use of the JTAC specifically?  Because I noticed a Bradley B-FIST calling in an airstrike can call it in a minute earlier than a JTAC team.  Obviously a JTAC can call it in sooner than say, a regular HQ unit... but.. are JTACs in just because theyre part of the OOB in real life?

JTAC teams call faster.  Check the call-in time for a 'regular' spotter/leader/squad then call in the same mission from a JTAC.  I've seen quite a spread time - wise.

 

The group can now return to their throwing wooden shoes around. ;)

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Minor quibble:

 

 

 

b fist bradley

 

Just call it the BFIST.  FIST is actually FiST or "Forward Support Team" in reference to being the forward support team for artillery.  BFIST would be "Bradley Fire Support Team"  which makes calling it the Bradley BFIST redundant.

 

 

 

 

.would have more plentiful and powerful equipment?

Yes.  The BFIST is linked into a wide variety of networks, communications systems, and the like.  The target designation stuff is also a lot less tricky to employ (as it's integrated into the turret vs being some sort of manpacked system).  Also US Army FIST teams often have similar training to JTACs (if I recall it's Joint-Fires or J-FIRES or something like that).  It's not the same, and the USAF will try to sell you that the JTAC is something amazing, but in practice you have a JTAC for every Battalion, and a FIST team for every company, so your mileage with "FISTers" is a bit better.  

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Related question: Just to be explicit, the JTACs actually belong to the Air Force, and that organization pays their salaries, right? They are just attached to the Army units they support?

 

Yes. There's on paper at least a vehicle allocated to them from the Battalion fires cell, but the JTAC team is USAF. One of my many annoyances with the USAF, that we only saw "our" JTAC team two to three times a year.  They didn't really have a good idea who we were or what we did, and I was not especially impressed with the capabilities they offered over a FIST team.  

 

On a similar note, if they had to stay on our base or really any army housing for any length of time they would receive a "substandard housing allowance."    

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