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Buttoned or unbuttoned spotting.


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In CM:RT there is no question; you want your AFV commanders unbuttoned to maximize spotting, unless the risk of loosing them is too high. In CM:BS I find I don't know anymore because I can't tell if the sensors availible in this or that vehicle are so advanced that unbuttoning my commander actually degrades my spotting ability. Any ideas on how to make that call?

M.

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I'd put it the following way:

 

Ubuttoned gives the following

advantages: a lot more FOV, faster spotting in open terrain

disadvantages: it degrades observation distance severely, you lose the ability to spot through thermals in adverse terrain (for vehicles that have thermal), and your CO is vulnerable.

 

Therefore, I really see no need to open up a modern vehicle, unless your sensors are shot.  

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Realistically, the effectiveness of assisted spotting should be dependent on the time of the day. FLIR should be next to useless when the sun is up on a nice summer day. I've used only the tripod mounted infantry thermal irl and was barely able to make out blobs in the treeline at practically point blank range (~150m) which were supposed to be an infantry section. If the instructor didn't tell me where to look exactly, I probably wouldn't be able to spot them with all the heat noise from other terrain features. Vehicle ones should have the similarly poor performance. Night time however they are godmode.

 

For the purposes of CM, I'd just keep 'em buttoned as electronic assists appear to always function under the ideal theoretical conditions regardless of the ambient light and temperature. And under ideal conditions they are far superior to mk1 eyeballs. 

Edited by Sashko
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The problem is that the vehicles in CM:BS are of such a wide variety, ranging from WW2 standard eye ball Mk. 1 to cutting edge thermals and C3I systems when it comes to sensors and sensory enhancements. What I am wondering is which vehicles should be kept buttoned up, and which should be guided "with the wind in you face".

M.

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which vehicles should be kept buttoned up

 

 

Tank

 

which should be guided "with the wind in you face".

 

 

Jeep

 

Joking aside, the manual goes into quite a lot of detail re the various vehicle systems.   Maybe I would unbutton a  T-64 in some circumstances, but so far I have tended to keep everything else buttoned.

Edited by Jock Tamson
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Therefore, I really see no need to open up a modern vehicle, unless your sensors are shot. 

 

Nah.  If we're talking real life the actual coverage of sensors is not especially awesome, and the inherent disorientation can be problematic.  Having your gunner looking for stuff on the TIS, while you move between commander's optics and checking the surrounding area seems to work best.  Human eyes are also a lot less degraded by cover (or the TIS will get all confused by a thicket or some heavy foliage, but the lizard part of your brain that's still looking for saber toothed tigers or whatever will pick up movement deeper within cover.  

 

Especially a "knife fight" type ranges, the better SA provided by being at least partially unbuttoned is often a deciding factor.  It's certainly something with advantages and disadvantages but it's closer to "thing you use sometimes" than something you have no need to do at all.

 

I tend to keep guys buttoned in CMBS so far though given the sort of missions I've played, but back in CMSF I'd unbutton my dudes before rolling through areas that ought to be clear, but might not be.  Lost a TC or two, but I'd found rolling through hatches closed often meant tanks knocked out by the one last RPG gunner in the village, or other such nonsense that the unbuttoned TC tended to spot (also while not a CMBS thing, the fact it was the loader and the TC up with machine guns made for a pretty good react to ambush/infantry mopup combo)

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In one of my games.. Someone on the second floor of a building in a town shot an RPG at my BMP-2 from 350 meters and missed. The Buttoned up BMP-2 spotted him and ruined his day with 30mm cannon fire. That didnt happen with BMP-2s in CMSF.

In another game an unbuttoned T-90A killed an M-1 in a knife fight in some Woods so yeah, thé better SA paid off at close range.

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  • 1 month later...

There are the US Humvees and other reconnaissance vehicles that carry these big mounted external optics. Does one has to unbutton the vehicle in order to be able to use the equipment or does it work even if buttoned-in?

 

You must be unbuttoned.

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Yup, the LRAS3 sensor on the recon humvee and the recon Stryker are not remotely-operated.  Likewise the FS3 on the M1200 and the fire support Stryker.  A version of the M1200 that allows for targeting under armor is planned, and I think I have seen discussion about doing the same for the Strykers, but for now someone has to pop out to operate these systems.

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I always roll buttoned. Sensors aside, beware of having a "Commander" inside (preferably both seat name wise and MOS wise), besides the usual skeleton crew of the "Driver" and "Gunner". An additional pair of eyes is very useful. For some vehicles it's actually very crucial - BRM-1/3s. Their skeleton crew of 3 doesn't include a Commander. He sits on passengers seats there for some technical reasons. IFVs that have a dedicated commander sights lose their benifit when the commander is dismounted along with the infantry squad.

Edited by L0ckAndL0ad
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