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New CMRT Campaign: The Cross of Iron


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@Ghost Rider 3/3

 

"To those that have somehow managed Total Victory... nice.. would like to know where you placed your units."

 

I positioned in the setup zone as follows:

 

Middle: I made a great trench behind the forrest with the Bunker and positioned one platoon and a HMG in it. I used 2 schützenlöcher (dugouts), positoned the 2 Paks in it and gave them the direction to the right side of the battlefield (behind the forrest on the right side). In the first minutes, i drove the two HQ Tigers also to this position, which defended the left side of the forrest (street). When the russians came and artillery-fire ceased, i moved two infantry groups into the forrest to prevent my Tigers and my Paks from surprise-attacks through the woods.

 

Left side:

In the forrest left of the mentioned position (the one which is in the setup zone nearest to the enemy), i placed trenches and dugouts into the forrest and positoned a platoon, 3 HMGs and 2 additional Panzerschrecks in it. Behind this forrest i drove 4 Tigers, 2 aiming to the left, 2 to the right, securing the street.

 

Right side:

I positoned the remaining trenches and dugouts at the right edge of the map (where the russian forward observer is) and put two platoons in it or around it, because there were not enough trenches for all soldiers left.

After 2 minutes, i ran with both platoons forward into the forrest with the second bunker and positioned them there as a screen for the Tigers against the advancing infantry. 4 Tigers drove behind the forrest, two looked right, two looked left.

 

The rest of the soldiers were positioned on the right map side and ran to the rear at the beginning of the scenario.

All infantry-soldiers are in hide.

 

With this tactic, you loose some man through artillery, but not too much. The Tigers, the Schrecks and the Paks always fire into the sides of the T34s and so you have more hits with the first round.

 

I hope, this helpes a little bit.

 

By the way, i´m not a genius, i nedded some frustrating experiences with this scenario, before i figured out, that this tactic works fine. ;)

 

@ Dragonwynn:

 

"I may release the missions as stand alone without the storyline."

 

Don´t do this, your storyline and campaign are great. But you should mention in the download area, that this campaign is not intended for CM-beginners, but for hardcore fans with a high frustrating tolerance! :D

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Ok based on recent input I have made the following adjustments to the campaign.

1. I have added generous setup zones to all battles which should give you some flexibility.

2. In the first mission I added additional fortifications: 3 sandbag walls for the 3 pak 40's, 10 more foxholes and 5 trenchlines. This should help with some of the concerns about troops in the open and guns unprotected.

3. In the 4th mission I changed the location of one group of enemy tanks that would open fire on the road as soon as the first turn begin. They are futher back hopefully out of LOS with the road but are still close enough to do a meet and greet with you very soon.

 

Now there are 2 ways you can go about approaching this campaign. If you stick to the original setups it follows the storyline exactly. If you do your on setups it may vary from what the storyline is telling you so keep that in mind. Also none of the infantry units are core units, only Clauss's company. However infantry are involved in every battle of the campaign in varying degrees as either support for the tanks or the tanks support them. Some will be full squads some will be stragglers but they will be important to the campaign.

 

As I stated previously my intent was to create a story driven campaign that presented the player tough but unique challenges. It seems I got the tough part right lol. However it is meant first and formost to be fun so the input has been very valuable in hopefully correcting the areas of concern. The dropbox link to the updated cam file is here https://www.dropbox.com/s/bp2j5c693zyw5ds/The%20Cross%20of%20Iron.cam?dl=0

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@MARS42 So I did what you did, I did take less casualties all around initially except for the area around the Village.  (I honestly think that place is bound to get decimated no matter what, so you lose on average 2 HMG, and around 2 platoons... if your lucky maybe a platoon and a half...

 

I stopped it about 20min into the game.. its luck of the draw.  I lost 2 Tigers on the Left facing the Left,  The Soviets just bum rushed the open field and it was 4 to 2 and then the next minute another 2 tanks appeared, you can only shoot so fast, and at point blank range.. around 200m max it makes no difference.  The Panzerfaust teams were eliminated as the Tanks could see them in foxholes and destroyed them at range.

 

Middle was more successful, however another Rush by the soviets overwhelmed the 2 HQ tanks, one was penetrated and the crew killed except for one, and My Hauptman Claus was a casualty... end of story so why even keep going.  The Two Tanks on the Left facning the road have a hell of time supporting the middle as they cant see a bloody thing through all the trees, and if the 2 left facing tanks fail.. their ass is in the wind.

 

Right side.. again the T-34's on the reverse slope pick off HIDING Panzerfuast teams in a trench.. go figure they may have Infra-red technology.. and the fact they were in that tree line.  They died horribly which left 3 teams in the area.. they did ok but in the end all died...  They again Rushed with 5 T-34's and the Paks and Tigers killed them all but lost another Tiger..

 

Thats about it...  its really in rough shape.  In making many scenarios myself, there is somewhat balance.  As a player you should NOT have to completely be gamey in your setup in order to achieve victory.. or in this case just bloody survive. 

 

EDIT:  I just saw Dragonwynn's posting.. LOL so will download the latest version.

Edited by GhostRider3/3
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I think i will and see how it goes

The Russian Player will utterly destroy the German player (if the Russian Player is even slightly experienced).. if your talking about the First scenario, its hard just with the AI..   Spoiler Alert The Soviets outnumber the Germans 5-1 in tanks and about 1.3 to 1 in Infantry, but they have LOTS of Artillery.  I think you could re-create it and tone down some of the Artillery and maybe 3.5 to one in tanks to make it feasible in my opinion.

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The Russian Player will utterly destroy the German player (if the Russian Player is even slightly experienced).. if your talking about the First scenario, its hard just with the AI..   Spoiler Alert The Soviets outnumber the Germans 5-1 in tanks and about 1.3 to 1 in Infantry, but they have LOTS of Artillery.  I think you could re-create it and tone down some of the Artillery and maybe 3.5 to one in tanks to make it feasible in my opinion.

Thanks for the warning and advice Ghostrider

 

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Para I can make you a moddified version of the first scenario with the adjustments GhostRider suggested if you would like and PM it to you. I am probably just going to release all the scenarios as a standalone package anyway since everyone still seems to be struggling with the campaign. I have not heard any feedback since I made the last adjustments so I dont know if it helped or not. Maybe I can just take the lessons learned from this one and hopefully make something better in the future (been working on something similar for BS). I do appreciate all the previous feedback as it has helped immensly with the learning curve. I am disappointed I could not get this campaign to offer players what I had intended as alot of time went into it. I guess its difficult to really turn the experience of what the Germans went through in reality during Bagration and replicate it into a workable situation with in the parameters of the game. They pretty much got their a** handed to them and I guess I did replicate that successfully lol.

 

Anyways I will release the missions as a pack when I get time so those who did not complete the campaign can see how it plays out. I will delete out the story line as it will not be needed but hold onto the modtag folder for the immersion factors, especially since I wanted to showcase Umlauts damage models from his Factory Pack.

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Para I can make you a moddified version of the first scenario with the adjustments GhostRider suggested if you would like and PM it to you. I am probably just going to release all the scenarios as a standalone package anyway since everyone still seems to be struggling with the campaign. I have not heard any feedback since I made the last adjustments so I dont know if it helped or not. Maybe I can just take the lessons learned from this one and hopefully make something better in the future (been working on something similar for BS). I do appreciate all the previous feedback as it has helped immensly with the learning curve. I am disappointed I could not get this campaign to offer players what I had intended as alot of time went into it. I guess its difficult to really turn the experience of what the Germans went through in reality during Bagration and replicate it into a workable situation with in the parameters of the game. They pretty much got their a** handed to them and I guess I did replicate that successfully lol.

 

Anyways I will release the missions as a pack when I get time so those who did not complete the campaign can see how it plays out. I will delete out the story line as it will not be needed but hold onto the modtag folder for the immersion factors, especially since I wanted to showcase Umlauts damage models from his Factory Pack.

That would be really appreciated...i realise how much effort and time you have put in to this and want to thank you.

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Hello Dragonwynn,

i have played the 5th scenario (defence of the bridge) through and won it relativly easy.

I think, there´s is a great mistake in it, because the russians tanks of the attacking force along the small wooden area from south to north did not move during the whole scenario. So the scenario turned out as follows:

1. I had to fight the beginning battle with the 4 russian tanks on my marching road. After destroying them (lost 1 Tiger), i spyed some infantry in the forrest next to the destroyed tanks. I rounded up the forrest with my tanks, gave area fire and went into the woods with infantry, that i had moved to this place. I was absolutely stunned, how much infantry you had put in this little wood, as i killed a hundred or so soldiers there.

2. In the meantime the russian infantry of the main force attacked over the open area towards the bridge, but without the tanks, so this became a slauterhouse for the Ivan. My MGs killed them to the last man.

3. After finishing the little forrest, i took my HQ, 1. and 2. Zug and attacked with uploaded infantry to the north, where my infantry had reconned the russian tank-armada. I attacked them from the side and out of the forrest from behind and felt sometimes like Wittmann at Villers-Bocage. This was to easy!

Result: I lost only 2 Tigers

My attack made a lot of fun, but i think, the not moving russian tanks, which stayed in their setup area, were not intended by you. So this should be corrected.

By the way, the ongoing air-attacks by the russians created a interesting atmosphere (in the 4th run, the russian planes destroyed my Flak).

I´m looking forward for the 6th mission against the Josef-Stalin tanks.

Am i the only one here, who played the scenarios 2-5?

Edited by MARS42
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OK, lost my WWW access at home due to switching to BT on Monday and them not connecting me properly... Back on line now..

 

So just finished the 2nd Scenario and I was kicked out of campaign with a Draw overall after a Tactical Victory in 2nd Game.

 

I basically stopped the Soviet advance on their side of river but did not push them back.

 

I kept Aid Station and I lost Wounded due to them being in a truck hit by arty strike. They paniked and ran into the woods where arty fell for around 30 mins...

 

So I guess that cost me lots of points and Soviets got Objective 1 - not that I can find what that was on map.

 

I also lost two Tigers to the T34's. 1 was fair enough the other obtained a LOS that was not there for 15 mins and then popped open.. Ohh well..

 

Feed Back and Spoilers...

 

Arty fires too much and too long IMO and does not feel like would be used like that IRL. Also Soviet infantry again walks into their own arty..



I would use arty in shorter burst and wider area as there was no LOS to areas for Soviets and if they did use arty IMO it would be map plotted which would be very general strike on key areas.

Map looked great and offered some good choices.

Set up areas OK and again give Germans some good choices.

Always annoyed when I can not choose area for set up and then the designer hits your troops with Arty.. So did lose troops at rear as in woods, no fox holes and tree bursts.

Forward infantry at Aid station I accepted losing platoon as it was my choice to place them there.

A tad annoyed by loss of wounded and with all that arty if the player is unlucky looks like they will get booted from game through no bad choice of their own. You need to move wounded out, I guess I should have split them up, but I put all on 1st truck and used other trucks for other troops (HMG's) to get them for 2nd line of defence across river.

The scenario did not really challenge me as my Tigers picked off T34's fairly easy and with my AT weapons I alos managed to break up tanks pretty easy.

I would agree that having soviet foot infantry make an attack away from tanks would add more challenge.

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The Russian Player will utterly destroy the German player (if the Russian Player is even slightly experienced).. if your talking about the First scenario, its hard just with the AI..   Spoiler Alert The Soviets outnumber the Germans 5-1 in tanks and about 1.3 to 1 in Infantry, but they have LOTS of Artillery.  I think you could re-create it and tone down some of the Artillery and maybe 3.5 to one in tanks to make it feasible in my opinion.

 

I Agree I think with a half way decent Soviet player the Germans will be bum rushed and against the AI the Germans can win fairly easily once you know where to place and how AI works...

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@MARS42 So I did what you did, I did take less casualties all around initially except for the area around the Village.  (I honestly think that place is bound to get decimated no matter what, so you lose on average 2 HMG, and around 2 platoons... if your lucky maybe a platoon and a half...

 

I stopped it about 20min into the game.. its luck of the draw.  I lost 2 Tigers on the Left facing the Left,  The Soviets just bum rushed the open field and it was 4 to 2 and then the next minute another 2 tanks appeared, you can only shoot so fast, and at point blank range.. around 200m max it makes no difference.  The Panzerfaust teams were eliminated as the Tanks could see them in foxholes and destroyed them at range.

 

Middle was more successful, however another Rush by the soviets overwhelmed the 2 HQ tanks, one was penetrated and the crew killed except for one, and My Hauptman Claus was a casualty... end of story so why even keep going.  The Two Tanks on the Left facning the road have a hell of time supporting the middle as they cant see a bloody thing through all the trees, and if the 2 left facing tanks fail.. their ass is in the wind.

 

Right side.. again the T-34's on the reverse slope pick off HIDING Panzerfuast teams in a trench.. go figure they may have Infra-red technology.. and the fact they were in that tree line.  They died horribly which left 3 teams in the area.. they did ok but in the end all died...  They again Rushed with 5 T-34's and the Paks and Tigers killed them all but lost another Tiger..

 

Thats about it...  its really in rough shape.  In making many scenarios myself, there is somewhat balance.  As a player you should NOT have to completely be gamey in your setup in order to achieve victory.. or in this case just bloody survive. 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I did different deploy to get Total Victory.

 

Place Tigers way back so you have woods near village, place 6 Tigers there 2 angled left and 4 angled right covering road at angle not face on...

 

Move 4 Tigers to woods on right just across field, split two angled left and 2 T on to right so woods protect left flank of the Tigers.

 

Infantry I left all set up as was designed.

 

I then pulled infantry back to woods on far right and hid in the woods (two different woods areas)

 

I pushed some infantry forward to MG posts (BTW I agreed re the comments about why a commander would not have a more forward line of defence).

 

Yes very painful watching your inf die and I did lose lots but because they distracted T34's and AT guns whittled some down by time Tanks enter your LOS you have multiple shots and usually only 1 T34 at a time to take out. That way I managed to only lose two Tigers and all Soviet tanks destroyed as they came into LOS. The key is to not move the Tigers and get the Soviets buttoned moving into your LOS.

 

So I think this mission can be won once you work out terrain and angles and how easily Tigers can die at hands of T34 85's.

 

IMO I would just allow the German player a set up area from bunkers all way back, but then that might make it too easy... In that case reduce German forces by some (inf) and not have AT guns. I did not ask for AT stuff just more freedom to choose better deploy areas...

 

I also think arty lasts too long and Soviets can run into it, I do not know the history so maybe there was that length and maybe Soviets did run into it as a calculated risk.. Just feels wrong IMO and I would opt for Shorter hits but work the different areas over..

 

BTW does look very impressive so I do get feel of massive nasty Arty hit....

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Thanks Holien. The latest file has the setup zone extended to be able to move the inf around. Not sure if you had checked it out or not. When I researched the opening of Bagration I read several first hand accounts of how devastating the artillery was. One veteran of a number of major battles who survived said it was like nothing they had experienced before. I wanted to try and replicate that as closely as possible and still give the player a chance.

I like the strategy you used. I had not thought of that. In the second mission the objective I believe you are talking about is at the back of the Eastside of the map. It's a staging area to move the wounded to out of artillery threat worth 500pts if I recall.

I agree with some of the crazy los issues. Not much I can do on that though.

Edited by dragonwynn
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You can get Crazy Arty effect, but shorter frame, I am no grog but what you are showing is stuff that would happen before game starts...

 

So from design POV reduce defenders to account for Pre Bomabard and then have shorter stonk of nasty and it will achieve same aim but allow game to start after say 5 mins of stonk?

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Hi,

 

I did different deploy to get Total Victory.

 

Place Tigers way back so you have woods near village, place 6 Tigers there 2 angled left and 4 angled right covering road at angle not face on...

 

Move 4 Tigers to woods on right just across field, split two angled left and 2 T on to right so woods protect left flank of the Tigers.

 

Infantry I left all set up as was designed.

 

I then pulled infantry back to woods on far right and hid in the woods (two different woods areas)

 

I pushed some infantry forward to MG posts (BTW I agreed re the comments about why a commander would not have a more forward line of defence).

 

Yes very painful watching your inf die and I did lose lots but because they distracted T34's and AT guns whittled some down by time Tanks enter your LOS you have multiple shots and usually only 1 T34 at a time to take out. That way I managed to only lose two Tigers and all Soviet tanks destroyed as they came into LOS. The key is to not move the Tigers and get the Soviets buttoned moving into your LOS.

 

So I think this mission can be won once you work out terrain and angles and how easily Tigers can die at hands of T34 85's.

 

IMO I would just allow the German player a set up area from bunkers all way back, but then that might make it too easy... In that case reduce German forces by some (inf) and not have AT guns. I did not ask for AT stuff just more freedom to choose better deploy areas...

 

I also think arty lasts too long and Soviets can run into it, I do not know the history so maybe there was that length and maybe Soviets did run into it as a calculated risk.. Just feels wrong IMO and I would opt for Shorter hits but work the different areas over..

 

BTW does look very impressive so I do get feel of massive nasty Arty hit....

That's great to hear.. glad you got the total victory.  Yeah, I have been concentrating lately on getting my scenario out by early next week.. if all goes well.  I would like to finish the Campaign, I have just been busy.  The only problem I have with scenarios like this, is that you have to get really gamey.. in order to have victory.. to me its not the most favorable type, in which you have to move certain assets to a certain spot to obtain such a victory,  but I am glad you have accomplished the 1st scenario.  I do agree the Artillery lasts to long and the Russians can run into it themselves.

Edited by GhostRider3/3
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As soon as real life lets me have the time I am going to rework the whole campaign to hopefully get it to the state it should be. There are some AI issues I need to correct in one of the missions and of course maybe modify the first mission a little more. If those of you who are struggling with it want to wait until I make the necessary adjustments I will post it to this thread. Hopefully by the weekend I will get it up to speed.

 

Most of you seem to have issues with the layout of the infantry and tanks at the beginning of each scenario. Being a story driven campaign I elected in having the German forces preset so to speak to follow the storyline instead of a "gamey" approach where you moved everything around yourselves. This was done by design as I wanted to challenge the player to work through the scenario with the story (the whole point of having a story driven campaign) and overcome the obstacles each situation created. In the first scenario the Germans are in a rest and recup area that is supposed to be a quiet sector (much like the US forces at the opening of the Ardennes Offensive). This is how the story begins and as history played it out the Germans got caught by surprise and as most of you know got the s*** kicked out of them. This campaign was designed as one mans struggle to get his command through these conditions. It is a difficult campaign for this reason as I stated previously.

 

Now in the revision I can have the setup areas designed for the player to pick and choose (these are already in the latest file) or I can reset back to what was orginally intended. I can make adjustments to the forces involved either by removing or repositioning as well as cutting back on things like the artillery barrages. Give me the input on this so I can tailor the campaign for a more enjoyable experience. I messed with some missions so much trying to find the balance most players are looking for that I have inadvertantly created errors and AI issues that I need to correct.

 

Your input so far has been extremely valuable and I have learned a great deal from this input so hopefully future projects (if anyone still wants to try them lol) will be better balanced and hopefully more fun. So let me know what you would like to see in the revision and I will try and get it done this weekend. This campaign is a special one for me and i do intend to get it right.

Edited by dragonwynn
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That's the spirit Dragon!

I like storydriven campaign since there are not many with so immersive story out there. So stick to your original idea and balance it right. You could make a compromise and enable the player to move around units at the start which are not explicitly mentioned of their whereabouts in the story and lock those who are.

Good luck and I think we all owe you a pint of beer. :)

Edited by Hister
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I get the idea of a story driven campaign so if that is the intent I have no problem with the infantry force outside my control. So by all means remove setup zones and focus the player on the tanks.

Just make sure those infantry are set up in a realistic manner IMO split squads and reasonable defensive positions. Once the game starts the player is then thrust into playing every role.

I have just started to play Red Devil's and that narrative driven campaign has the text better spaced so it is easier to read and engage with.

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dragonwynn,

  I'd say stay with the story driven set-up.  If the player gets to move everything around at the start, then he's giving himself advantages that won't be consistent with the intent of the story.

 

  As Holien says, you can provide a modicum of compromise by allowing the player to arrange some of the units that aren't central to the story. 

 

 

Heinrich505

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Hello Dragonwynn,

 

i played the 6th scenario against the Josef Stalin tanks today. A lot of fun and a really hard fight. One Josef Stalin took 13 hits in a head to head shootout at 900 m before he exploded. The only chance to survive this map is to make flanking manouvres with the Tigers to get the Stalins from the side and behind. Lost 2 Tigers and took all three winning areas. Really good stuff, congratulation. :)

 

To my regret, you really frustrated me afterwards.  :(  I had to choose, if i lead a breakthrough or attack a supply depot. My ammunition was nearly at 0, so i had no choice and went on with the supply depot mission. In the briefing i read with surprise, that i only have the 1. platoon for this scenario. A platoon, that fought from the beginning of the campaign and lost logically some Tigers throughout the maps.

 

So i ended in the setup-area with 1 Tiger and 4 Halftracks. Heavily frustrated, i saw no chance to go on with the campaign and put the cease-fire button. ...I wanted to see, what i would have been against with my single Tiger. 4 Paks and 5-6 122mm Panzerjäger + really good recon infantry on russian side.

 

Suggestion: Bring up some replacement tanks during the campaingn, for example strugglers (Panthers for example), which become new core-units.

14 Tigers are not enough for such a difficult and long campaign.

By the way, what size has the campaign, how many maps must a player win in the campaign?

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