A Modern Day Battle of Kursk and River Mius

[LUCASWILLEN05]

In mid August as the NATO counter offensive continues two main prongs of the operation are formed.

 

In the south NATO forces attack to eliminate a strong Soviet bridgehead in very much the same place as the 1943 battle. The Russins resist strongly behind well dug in positins and extensive minefelds.

 

Further north NATO forces begin to advance into Russia proper in much the same place as the Southern Wing of Operation Citadel. Again the intention is the capture of the strategic city of Kursk. As i 1943 Russian forces are well dug in with extesive minefields. As in 1943 weather conditions are poor with frequent rain. NATO units fight their way forward agains heavy Russian resistence. Several days before the ceasefire the Russians launch a magor counter attack at Prokhorovka  Afer this battle the remaining few days of August are spent with minor operations before the ceasefire comes into effect. 

 

 

[AttorneyAtWar]

I would really love a modern Battle of Stalingrad or Moscow when the Germans come out for CMBS, of course snow will have to be included at some point right?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Isn't Stalingrad called Volgagrad these days. Of course Putin could change the name back again

 

If BF extend the time period covered then a modern day Battle of Moscow in tjhe NATO win branch would be interesting, and could well be a Stalingrad like meat grinder continuing into the winter.

 

In the meantime there are pssibilities for big city fights in urban centres such as Kharkov, Kiev, Mariapol etc. Lots of different types of battle that might be gamed within the context of this campaign.

[agusto]

Russia would probably nuke NATO long before the conventional ground forces could reach Moscow. NATO, on the other hand, would be aware of this and would not cross the Russian-Ukrainian border unless they absolutely have to.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

There might be good reasons to push into Russia, certainly to take limited objectives like Kursk (political negotiaing chips)

 

To advance on Moscow would be a big political decision, perhaps only implemented if Putin escalated to use of chemical weapons, but, if we wanted a reason to extend the warr for longer we could say somethng like this happens. The use of nuclear weapons is also a political decision and it could be argued that both sides would be well aware of the consequences of initating nuclear warfare and so think very carefully about using such weapons.

 

Assuming both sides are terrified about nuclear war it is entirely possible the conflict stays conventional..If Putin loses it at some point maybe more rational Russian generals overthrw him in a coup and seek a ceasefire with NATO. Should the war go nuclear then the war ends in Nuclear Armgeddon

Edited February 2, 2015 by LUCASWILLEN05

[Na Vaske]

Isn't Stalingrad called Volgagrad these days. Of course Putin could change the name back again

 

If BF extend the time period covered then a modern day Battle of Moscow in tjhe NATO win branch would be interesting, and could well be a Stalingrad like meat grinder continuing into the winter.

 

In the meantime there are pssibilities for big city fights in urban centres such as Kharkov, Kiev, Mariapol etc. Lots of different types of battle that might be gamed within the context of this campaign.

I know you are just making a joke, but for the record, the president of the Russian Federation doesn't have the authority to unilaterally change city names.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I know you are just making a joke, but for the record, the president of the Russian Federation doesn't have the authority to unilaterally change city names.

True. Though he could probably "arrange" the votes

 

Anyway, getting back on topic it could be interesting to see how the WW2 actions turn out with modern forces. he summer 1943 are the obvious candidates for this, hence Kursk and the Mius. Then there is 3rd/4th Fourth Kharkov (though we cannot currently do winter warfare) and the battles on the Dnieper in the autumn of 1943

[SlowLarry]

Seriously? I think troops, especially infantry, being stationary for a longer period of time, even with elaborated airdefense, will simply turn to dust these days...

[sburke]

There might be good reasons to push into Russia, certainly to take limited objectives like Kursk (political negotiaing chips)

 

To advance on Moscow would be a big political decision, perhaps only implemented if Putin escalated to use of chemical weapons, but, if we wanted a reason to extend the warr for longer we could say somethng like this happens. The use of nuclear weapons is also a political decision and it could be argued that both sides would be well aware of the consequences of initating nuclear warfare and so think very carefully about using such weapons.

 

Assuming both sides are terrified about nuclear war it is entirely possible the conflict stays conventional..If Putin loses it at some point maybe more rational Russian generals overthrw him in a coup and seek a ceasefire with NATO. Should the war go nuclear then the war ends in Nuclear Armgeddon

Could start with an internal conflict in Russia with NATO intervening as a humanitarian ceasefire force. Do some Red on Red conflict stuff for the campaign as well. You'd have to be doing alternate history anyway, why not go all out?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Could start with an internal conflict in Russia with NATO intervening as a humanitarian ceasefire force. Do some Red on Red conflict stuff for the campaign as well. You'd have to be doing alternate history anyway, why not go all out?

 

One could do a post Ukraine War scenario where a defeated Russia collapses into a civil war. NATO commits forces to secure WMD sites

 

Within the scope of the war situation outlined by BF there would be scope for limited offensive operations into Rusdsia itself. The Ukranian city of Belgorod is only around 5 kilometers from the border with ussia which means the battlefields fought over by IISS Panzer Corps are very close. NATO's counter offensive might very well reach the area towards the middle of August or late August. Which would allow for the possibility of our Second Battle of Kursk scenario. As in 1943 NATO would be assumed to be conducting operations aimed at capturing an important Russian city and destroying Russian forces. As yu say his is alternate (r more accurately future) history so we can pretty much come up with any scenrio we like.

 

Even a Barbarossa II "March on Moscow" situation. Maybe someone could do a Red Square map so we can do some "Moscowgrad" scenarios. Or have the glory of parking our M1A2s in front of the Kremlin and hoisting the Stars and Stripes (the iconic phtograph of the war)   Yes, I know there is a strong argument that Putin goes nuclear (alhough one could argue that sane Russian generals who do not wish to see the destruction of the Rodina know the war is lost and overthrow Putin in a coup before the l;aunch codes are issued (similar to the end of Red Storm Rising for instance)