vincere Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 that is, all right? - $ 120 billion has been spent on rescuing rubal (this is not the end) - More than 100 billion euros of capital fled from Russia (this is not the end) - War of ukraine, annexation of Abkhazia, sanctions and the price war (oil) - means political instability - which is why the ruble collapsed and capital flees - Inflation / high prices - 138 place of corruption index (for 175 countries) http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results- Russia has the anti-corruption law - except that it does not work (lack of transparency, oligarchy, dictatorship, no opposition, no free media) - Dependence on oil prices - Pauperization current troubles of Russia, this is just the beginning, and has only been one year. That is very worrying. As a westerner I do not want to see any dictatorship, or authoritarian Oligarchy militarily strong and dominant. But equally, we do not want where that could go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 This thread is deviating from the original topic. Let's reel it back in please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) ChrisND, How about an Armata appearance countdown clock? I've seen similar counters used with various online offers. On a more serious note, I really want to see this beast or, maybe I should say family of beasts, especially after the demise of what in my day we referred to as the FST (Future Soviet Tank), concerning which we had no "T" number, but did have enough data to be seriously concerned. So big a deal was it that even Newsweek had coverage of this thought soon to appear Soviet super tank, evidently the Object 195/T-95 for which we finally have open source imagery. My understanding is that Armata/T-99 takes some of its design cues from Object 195 aka T-95, but isn't as radical. This Armata Wiki is apparently outdated, but even so, offers a generous portion of grog goodness. Object 195/T-95--pics of the real AFV Side cutaway view of above which looks to have been taken from Russian military magazine Znamenosets (Standard Bearer) or similar, together with photorealistic renderings of what, based on available info and presumably informed speculation, the vid's creator and colleagues believes Object 195/T-95 looks like. Of particular interest in the cutaway is the armored capsule for the crew, a concept which dates on the Russian side from as far back as Object 477 Molot (Hammer), which was never built but has elements which later wound in Object 195/T-95. My present understanding is that the armored capsule concept will be in Armata/T-99. Regards, John Kettler Edited January 27, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That first video is of Burlak turret module. A far superior choice than development of a new platform imo. Had bustle autoloader and plenty of turreted ERA. Mounted 2A82 and could be modularly dropped into any t72\90\80 chassis according to what I read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Stagler, Thanks! I'm starting to wonder whether I've got two similar images confused in my head. I recall some weeks ago coming across something online the tank grogs were all worked up about and calling Object 195. Initial frame (subsequently in closeup) was (I think) the first pic I'd ever seen--at last after decades-- of what seemed to be the FST prototype, sitting there dusty, tarped and unloved. But maybe another tank was photographed in a similar setting, and my brain has swapped on memory for another? Sure got my attention, but am now entertaining the possibility that I was either confused by the gun shroud or unconsciously "saw" the much anticipated reported 140 mm gun in the pics I saw months ago. And when I go back and look at the initial sequence in the vid, it really looks pretty normal, except that I'm not used to seeing the 2A46 in a shroud like that. Who runs Grog School for modern Russian armor? Where do I apply to Tankwarts? It's clear from remarks like yours there is a ton of stuff I don't know and evidently need to learn. Regards, John Kettler Edited January 27, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Advantage of bustle autoloader as opposed to "Russia stronk" carousel autoloader much espoused by our eastern comrades on here is that the painfully short and ineffective sabot penetrators could be lengthened and effectiveness increased. T-14 apparently has carousel autoloader though. Edited January 27, 2015 by Stagler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krasnoarmeyets Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Advantage of bustle autoloader as opposed to "Russia stronk" carousel autoloader much espoused by our eastern comrades on here is that the painfully short and ineffective sabot penetrators could be lengthened and effectiveness increased. T-14 apparently has carousel autoloader though. T-90A (except some early production runs, apparently) and T-72B3 (and probably the T-80UE-1/UA with the different MZ type also, but they are very rare) already have a reworked autoloader that can house the lengthened "Svinets-1/2" / "Lekalo" APFSDS. Also, it is unlikely that "Armata"-based MBT would have a carousel autoloader, since it would be hard to fit it into an unmanned turret (since combat compartment no longer extends into the hull, there is simply no space for it). The bustle autoloader, mounted in the back of the turret, seems much more logical, especially since the tank would likely be upgunned to 152mm main cannon later in its service life. It will also probably have new unitary rounds to simplify loading operations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 All will be revealed soon . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) My point exactly Krasno. I was arguing the case for a bustle in another thread. I had heard that the T-14 was to have standard carousel autoloader, it shows it in some concept images also, Ikalugin was dead set on it also. It would fit where it normally goes but would be more effective at loading because there would be no crew in the way inside the turret. Although the upgraded autoloader is present on T-90A, and T-72B3, the sabot penetrators are not as effective as their western counterparts. Russian HEAT is far more effective however. AFAIK M1 doesnt carry any HEAT, just APFSDS and HE. Edited January 29, 2015 by Stagler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Ruddd Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Stagler - M1 series do not have HE as a load-out, but uses the M830A1 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m830a1.htm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 In game Abrams will have AMP round, which replaces M830A1 and other rounds. AMP will defeat anything up to a heavy IFV / old tank, while having a number of programmable fuzing options that make it much more effective than conventional HE. Abrams has no need for a HEAT round with high penetration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) In game Abrams will have AMP round, which replaces M830A1 and other rounds. AMP will defeat anything up to a heavy IFV / old tank, while having a number of programmable fuzing options that make it much more effective than conventional HE. Abrams has no need for a HEAT round with high penetration. Douglas Ruddd, thats the round I meant, built to engage in targets in defilade. The T-72B3 and T-90 series ingame has load out HE with airburst, HEAT, GLATGM, and APFSDS. HEAT and GLATGM should be their primary engagement tools against enemy MBT. Abrams just AMP and APFSDS. 152mm HEAT would be something to behold though, ref near future upgunning of MBT. Edited January 29, 2015 by Stagler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stagler, How do you figure HEAT and GLATGM (an awkward acronym which when pronounced sounds like hawking) should be primary munitions for Russian tanks vs MBTs? Isn't, for example, the Abrams armor in fact better vs CE than KE? Before figuring in the new ERA? And doesn't APS make things tough for the GLATGM before running into the ERA and formidable base armor protection vs CE? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 GLATGM because of its longer range and its a higher hit probability (firing at a target without DAS however), the HEAT 3BK31 is meant to do RHA 800mm behind ERA, predicted penetration of APFSDS Svinets is said to be around 650 but who knows. That is what I think anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Well some points: - Armata (and all other tanks with the 2A82 gun/related weapons system) use long (890-930mm) KE rounds - Grifel 1 and 2 as well as "fast" HE-FRAG round Grifel 3. A longer round is known to have been in development. Thus the 2A82 armed vehicles would not suffer from any limitations to round length, even with the standard autoloader. - we expect Armata to have some sort of GLATM type weapon. - GLATM would be used against helicopters and long range shots (working against the ATGM platforms for example). - There is no point in HEAT shell anymore, as GLATM and "fact" HE-FRAG give you better performance in AT and anti infantry roles. The reason why we don't really like turret bustle autoloader is b/c it increases the internal volume and places ammo in a threatened area. Edited January 30, 2015 by ikalugin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 HEAT shell is still considered to be fairly good against softer targets alike Bradleys, Pumas and alike. You wouldn't waste your TGM's (tank guided munitions is just so much better than GLATGM) on it, your KE is overkill for it, and you might want to burn the infantry inside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hitting it with 125mm "fast" HE-FRAG is also an option I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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