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Military service of soldiers.


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Morality on the battlefield is, of course, subjective. However, there is general consensus that some behaviors are definitely moral and others not. US Army soldiers urinating on captured Iraqi insurgents is not. Neither is Ukrainian separatist leader "Givi" latest antics involving him taking captured bound and kneeling Ukrainian "Cyborgs" and force feeding them their unit insignia. The documented list of atrocities in Chechnya is extremely long for both sides are morally indefensible. The horrible acts of torture, abuse, and murder by all sides in the Balkan conflict are repulsive to anybody with a shred of Humanity. And I need not mention ISIS, do I? So on and so forth.

There are always some who will excuse and/or misattribute the actions of an individual to something larger. Perhaps there are mitigating circumstances, perhaps not. But in the end, the one who commits the act is the one guilty of the act. Humans have free will and they choose whether to use it or not. Shifting blame doesn't change the fact that strapping on a bomb and blowing up a civilian market or putting a gun to the back of a captured soldier's head can not be blamed on larger factors. It is simply a copout.

Steve

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This thread is for sharing of military experiences only. If a soldier wishes to express an opinion or observation directly related to his military experiences, that's fine. But definitely keep it narrowly focused and tied to an experience.

Steve

Hister, You really don't get it do you. ...But this is NOT THE THREAD for such a debate. It is not about your opinion being uncomfortable or difficult to deal with, it is about it being OFF TOPIC.Now, knock it off. Your final warning. The others who have jumped in, leave it alone.This thread is for sharing of military experiences only. If a soldier wishes to express an opinion or observation directly related to his military experiences, that's fine. But definitely keep it narrowly focused and tied to an experience.Steve

Message aknowledged. Sorry for the trouble. I am hard to stop when poked and when I think I was accused of something that I think I haven't done. Raging bull type.

Sorry again and will keep it tight.

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You are one intelligent man! I broke up laughing when I read the part about stealing the pallet of Gatorade. Marines in my time were known for their "midnight acqusitions" of Army, Airforce, or Navy supplies. We never considered it to be stealing because it was going to us anyway. We were just cutting out the middle men :rolleyes:

 

Most people don't know this, but we have a tradition in the USMC called Mess Dress Night when all the Officers and Staff NCOs in the company gather for a very, very formal dress uniform dinner. It's about a seven-course meal with a different wine at every course and all of the obligatory toasts. What people don't know is that our first toast isn't to the President of the United States, it is to the Queen. That signifies our roots in the British Royal Marines at the start of the American Revolution. The second toast is to the President. The first course is brought to the President of the Mess (the Senior Officer) who tastes the food and declares it "Unfit for human consumption." We can then begin dining.

The whole 7 course meal with constant toasting while wearing mess kit is a regt tradition ingrained in commonwealth armies, it's always opened with a toast to the monarch ;). Did not know the USMC did it though. On yah mate.

 

Some place hot. 1930611_45142122344_3694_n.jpg?oh=42594a

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My grand-grandfather also served with Slovenian partisans in WW2. His role with the partisans was "intendant" which roughly translates into supply provider. He basically went into villages that supported the partisan cause and was gathering food, cloths, medicines and stuff like that. He also was taking cattle and poultry by force from richer, materially better-off farmers who didn't support the partisan cause but weren't German collaborators either. More wealthy peasants back then were rightfully afraid that communist revolution will take huge chunks of their assets away so they weren't actively supporting partisans. This is exactly what happened after the war so their fears were on the spot. Since their stuff was taken by force their resentment of partisans grew even bigger. They all had huge grudge towards my grand-grandfather and after the war he never returned into his home village where he also took some livestock from the better standing peasants. He was mostly operating in the region of Mežakla plateau in Slovenia.      

 

He told us a story of how Germans made an encirclement offensive and systematically started sweeping the plateau and it's forests making the loop around partisans tighter and tighter. They were warned about the development by the snitches but too late since German clean-up operation was already on it's way. I'm not sure what year this was but probably in 44'. At the time I was to young to bother asking which year this was.

 

He was on the run with the rest of his regiment but not with all of them together. They spread in smaller groups and head in all sorts of directions hoping not to bump into any Germans.

 

His group came in contact with the Germans in the dense spruce and beech forest and shootout ensued. Since the situation was unbearable he started running away from German soldiers. He managed to dodge additional bullets that were whizzing passed him and made some distance when he stumbled upon a crevasse filled with fallen autumn leaves. He went in and covered himself with them. The two sides were still exchanging fire, there was lot of shouting and he wasn't able to really understand much being in a state of utter panic. Soon he realized Germans were just on top of him, still shooting at his comrades and yelling swear words "verdammt banditen" and the like. He said that moment was the longest in his life. He didn't dare to breath nor make a slightest flinch. They haven't realized he was hiding there and kept on going with their pursuit of the rest of his group who was in retreat but still returning fire to pursuing Germans.

 

He remained hidden for some time not daring to make any noise. After the shootout sounded to be far away he slowly poked his head out of the crevasse and froze for he saw a young German soldier who was also hiding like him in the same crevasse! They both got afraid of each other a lot at first but haven't made a sound starring at each other in utter disbelief. They remained quiet for some time observing each other's moves until they started to both laugh at the situation they found themselves in. They checked if there were any other Germans around and since there weren't they climbed out of the crevasse, gave each other a hand shake and an encouraging world and then departed. German soldier went in the direction of the pursuit while my grand-grandfather in the direction from where Germans came in order to get off the besieged plateau.  

 

He managed to escape in the end but many of his co-fighters didn't share his fate and died there as he learnt afterwards when his shattered group was able to gather together again after the siege was over.  

 

 

There was also one story I remember vividly. It was when his group has captured a collaborator and wanted to take him for interrogation to where the main partisan group was camping at the time. They haven't managed to reach dense forests before morning light started so they got nervous of being spotted by enemy. They were forest-jumping, going from one patch of wood to another. They reached a point where there was a bigger distance from one patch of wood to another through an open meadow at the time when sun was already shining. They were afraid to cross it so they put a partisan hat on their prisoner and sent him across the meadow letting him know he will be shot if he tries to escape or alert anyone while they stayed behind hiding in the wood. Shots were fired not from far away and their prisoner fell to the ground not showing any signs of life. It turned out they probably saved their own life by doing this awful conduct. They managed to escape safely. They later learned from locals their prisoner actually died that day on the spot. Terrible story but this is what war makes of people.        

 

 

Before the war ended he got hit in the back by a bullet. He fought he was a goner but there was no blood. When the air was clear he checked himself and saw a bullet hole in his backpack. When he opened it he saw bullet has hit his metal pot inside the backpack (back then they were making them dense and to last which would explain how it managed to stop the bullet). 

 

 

When Ljubljana (Slovenian capital) was liberated by partisan army he headed there and paraded riding a snow-white horse attracting envious looks from other partisans who paraded next to him and admiration from ladies. :) Horses were usually only ridden by high ranking partisans and he wasn't one but he said what the hell and did it regardless. Dunno where he got the horse from, he probably attained it illegally by stealing it or by force, dunno. I remember seeing a photo of him and that white horse - gotta find it and if I do I'll attached it here.

 

 

He got to live until 95 years old. I remember him as a very lively, active person who was considering marrying a 25 year younger lady when he was 90 years old. After that he was annoying medical sisters by pinching their asses in the nursing home where he spent living his last years.

 

He never seem to came to peace with himself since he did some great harm to his family and his kids and had no real connections with my family until my grandmother reached out to him wanting to present him me and my sister, his grand-grand siblings. I remember him crying when he saw us for the first time. I was eager to listen to his partisan stories while my sister was too little to be interested in what this old men was saying.

 

He tought my grandfather how to make one special cream out of herbs and animal fat that was used for different health problems in the days he stayed with us - he saw it being made by one herbalist partisan back in the war days and much later contacted him in order to obtain a recipe for it. He boasted he made it even more potent by adding I don't know what ingredient.  My grandfather was making it for many years to come. Every time I smelled it it reminded me of my grand grandfather Janez.      

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