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Like I'm saying all this stuff because stealth and recon are my favorite parts of the game and i would love it if my scouts weren't all expendable.

You seem to be equating "not Hiding" with "highly visible". It's not so. Scouts, FO's, Snipers that crawl into good places for observation can often remain hidden ( ie. not spotted by the enemy ) for long periods of time, if not the entire battle - and can provide invaluable information. :)

 

And I could put my units into places where I could always have the advantage

Oh my god, wouldn't we all ? ;)

Edited by Baneman
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Hide isn't something Scouts get to use much, becauase they're supposed to be looking out and Hide curtails such activity. And still the specifics of what Hide means "IRL" are irrelevant. Gets down. Stays down (mostly). Does everything possible to remain unseen. That's the best description you'll get and the best level at which to consider the order. Anything else is either obvious (being behind a bush helps) or below the abstraction layer. If your pTruppe is behind a bush, not Hiding, he'll pop his head up more often, be more likely to return fire (even a Target Arc isn't an ironclad guarantee the grunt won't feel threatened enough to shoot, but a Hide command is stronger inhibition still) than if he had a Hide order. If he's behind a bush, whatever tactical posture he's in, he gets some concealment.

Scouts should be given short, circular "self-defense" Target Arcs. They should move Slow in the last part of the concealment from where they're hoping to see without being seen. If they Hide when they are supposed to be looking, they will only see the bleedin' obvious. Knowing how the terrain influences concealment is far more important for scouting than knowing what the Hide command does, because scouts should only Hide to evade fire, generally.

You are overthinking the game. It has limitations.

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You know, you both are right. I just got crazy with obsessing about useless junk. I just need to look at the bigger picture. But isn't that what Cm about? Making real war on the computer? I mean, the whole point of projectile warfare is whether you could see the guy or not, so I really wanted to know if I could hide behind a bush when I'm in the mountains, will my stupid troops do it too? I just really. Really don't want my scouts to be found out. Because that's 2 units each time they get ambushed, thats a lot of men. That's like, half my men. I need to know what's on the other side so I don't die.

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Hide isn't something Scouts get to use much, becauase they're supposed to be looking out and Hide curtails such activity. And still the specifics of what Hide means "IRL" are irrelevant. Gets down. Stays down (mostly). Does everything possible to remain unseen. That's the best description you'll get and the best level at which to consider the order. Anything else is either obvious (being behind a bush helps) or below the abstraction layer. If your pTruppe is behind a bush, not Hiding, he'll pop his head up more often, be more likely to return fire (even a Target Arc isn't an ironclad guarantee the grunt won't feel threatened enough to shoot, but a Hide command is stronger inhibition still) than if he had a Hide order. If he's behind a bush, whatever tactical posture he's in, he gets some concealment.Scouts should be given short, circular "self-defense" Target Arcs. They should move Slow in the last part of the concealment from where they're hoping to see without being seen. If they Hide when they are supposed to be looking, they will only see the bleedin' obvious. Knowing how the terrain influences concealment is far more important for scouting than knowing what the Hide command does, because scouts should only Hide to evade fire, generally.You are overthinking the game. It has limitations.

i just wanted to understand what my men are doing, why they are doing, and how are they are doing what they are doing, I just want to understand.
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But isn't that what Cm about? Making real war on the computer?

Yes, it is, up to a point. The first point is the sanitisation thing. War is hard, dirty, scary and messy and CM can only give us a glimpse (or reminder for those of our communtiy who've been there) of that reality. The second point is the one you're running up against: technology. The desktops of today simply aren't up (in general) to rendering the detail you're diving into. The third point is simple playability. If every micro action of every pTruppe had to be controlled by you, the game would be significantly less fun. These last two are handled by the abstraction layer.

You've now got all the information you need to be able to go about finding your own SOP for your battlefield eyes in the CM game. That might not be exactly RW procedure, but it'll be close enough for government work.

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Yes, it is, up to a point. The first point is the sanitisation thing. War is hard, dirty, scary and messy and CM can only give us a glimpse (or reminder for those of our communtiy who've been there) of that reality. The second point is the one you're running up against: technology. The desktops of today simply aren't up (in general) to rendering the detail you're diving into. The third point is simple playability. If every micro action of every pTruppe had to be controlled by you, the game would be significantly less fun. These last two are handled by the abstraction layer.You've now got all the information you need to be able to go about finding your own SOP for your battlefield eyes in the CM game. That might not be exactly RW procedure, but it'll be close enough for government work.

whats SOP and what's RW? Also, youre 100% right, that's the same thing I say.
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Standard Operating Procedure

Real World

 

:)

 

And relax. Enjoy.

In CM, no one hears the pixeltruppen scream ( except with some of those soundmods :lol: ). Your men dying is a learning experience ( unless you're c3k ). As you learn, they'll die less. Eventually you'll be making someone else's men die more.

 

We all blundered around the battlefield when we started. Good times :D

Edited by Baneman
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Standard Operating Procedure

Real World

 

:)

 

And relax. Enjoy.

In CM, no one hears the pixeltruppen scream ( except with some of those soundmods :lol: ). Your men dying is a learning experience ( unless you're c3k ). As you learn, they'll die less. Eventually you'll be making someone else's men die more.

 

We all blundered around the battlefield when we started. Good times :D

thats really cool
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  • 1 month later...

I haven't seen it specifically stated here (perhaps I've missed it) but the Hide command is also a very good way of keeping your troops from revealing themselves through stupid actions, like opening up with small arms fire at an APC 300 m away. You could do short, limited target arcs, but Hide requires a lot less fiddling.

While you're right that Hide is a tiny bit less fiddly, it also comes with very significant other restrictions which will bite you in the ass. If all you want is a "hold fire" order, it's one shift-click more to set a circular cover arc than it is to tell them to Hide. In a situation that means holding fire is critical, don't you owe it to your pTruppen to take that miniscule amount of time?

Addressing your specific example, they shouldn't be firing at armour with smallarms anyway, unless there's something breathing poking out of the armour.

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Just a reminder that everything in this game is abstracted. What this means is that what you actually see happening in our game is not all there is. There is a lot of calculations involved. With hide command this means that while visually to the player the pixel troops seem to have almost no differece in cover, in terms of calculation there is signifigant advantage to survivability from indirect fire and/or getting spotted. With the drawbacks of reduced spotting ability to your hiding troops.

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...in terms of calculation there is signifigant advantage to survivability from indirect fire...

Really? I don't think that's true. The only advantage Hide gives against indirect fire is that your troops remain prone more of the time, which certainly does help. It's no better in that regard than them crawling, or being on flat terrain where they tend to go prone anyway.
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Really? I don't think that's true. The only advantage Hide gives against indirect fire is that your troops remain prone more of the time, which certainly does help. It's no better in that regard than them crawling, or being on flat terrain where they tend to go prone anyway.

 

You are probably correct but in the end it is all calculation, even if the pixel troops "only" go prone, it is much better than the default stance where every now and then some one pops up to scan the terrain with their binos etc (which is once again a abstraction on spotting) and get's hit by shrapnel. Ofc in open terrain it's probably just better to run away. But for example in order to take full advantage of foxholes and trenches while under indirect fire, you should use hide. All in all my experience is that troop survivability from both direct and indirect fire, improved once I started to use hide in almost every possible situation. Naturally not being seen helps a lot, but still.. I would say it has other perks as well.

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You are probably correct but in the end it is all calculation, even if the pixel troops "only" go prone, it is much better than the default stance where every now and then some one pops up to scan the terrain with their binos etc (which is once again a abstraction on spotting) and get's hit by shrapnel. Ofc in open terrain it's probably just better to run away. But for example in order to take full advantage of foxholes and trenches while under indirect fire, you should use hide. All in all my experience is that troop survivability from both direct and indirect fire, improved once I started to use hide in almost every possible situation. Naturally not being seen helps a lot, but still.. I would say it has other perks as well.

I would never argue that judicious use of Hide isn't a good idea. But what I'm saying is that Hide, in itself, doesn't add any "abstracted" resilience to nearby fragmentation events, it's just because they pTruppen's tender pixels tend to remain below the fragment plume, plus any differential they get in the "terrain save" from being prone. Doesn't matter why they're prone, any prone trooper interacts with shrapnel in exactly the same way.

I would also note that the default "popping up to one knee to spot" isn't an abstraction, either. The raising of the binos to the eyes might be a visual indication that this is what the pTruppe concerned is doing, but the pTruppe's pixels occupy the same space on screen as you see his posture showing.

The "terrain save" is certainly an abstraction, and being prone (which Hide strongly encourages) might accrue a larger bonus. Or it may not. Mostly it makes the "terrain save" irrelevant because the bullet or fragment doesn't intersect with the prone pTruppe's pixels.

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