sell on Steam?

[AttorneyAtWar]

Please correct me if im wrong, but all I see on the first page of the thread is forum members politely telling the poster that Steam has been discussed to death, and that BF has stated that they aren't on Steam not because they never heard of it but for a reason. Granted, at the beginning nobody posted direct links to the older threads. That could have been different.

 

I think that this is the best way to deal with a "dead horse": Refer the new poster to the place where the issue was discussed. If the poster thinks that he can add something he is free to do so. In this thread, however, all I see is old arguments, or no arguments at all.

 

Thats true jargotn and you are absolutely right, I am referring to Mord's post more specifically and how it is usually handled in general across other posts. This one has certainly been more civil than the others and that's great, but some of these posts still crop up. I am not saying Mord or anyone who does it is a horrible person and I understand they have seen it plenty of times, however Steam posts are going to be a reality for the foreseeable future. Seeing as most of these posts will be from new people it is even more important to keep our composure.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Raptorx7

[Kieme(ITA)]

If BFC hasn't closed this maybe it's a good idea to keep it up and let the crap collect here. Everybody's happy.

[von Luck]

My grasp of mathematics is tenuous at best, but doesn't that demonstrate a drastic drop-off of sales ?

 

Obviously none of us knows what BFC's numbers look like, but I imagine it may be more of a sine-wave ( extrapolating from previous comments on the lines of "we know our customer base and this works for us" ).

 

 

If your grasp of what that graph indicates is weak you should certainly read the article that comes with it.  Perhaps then you can better understand the context of what your looking at.  As for BFC marketing to their customers - thats great!  How about growing the customer base through a common media outlet and using their tried and proven marketing techinques.  Steam has huge number of gamers which represents a market.  I'm merely encouraging that market should be tapped into.

 

von Luck

Edited January 5, 2015 by von Luck

[Justicar]

I wish everyday this was cm was on steam. I even launch them through steam so i can have access to the overlay.

One day maybe. But for now the master installers are a step in the right direction.

[ASL Veteran]

I'm going to guess that it isn't necessarily just a want to or contract whatever discussion within BFC as to whether or not they go onto Steam.  I'm guessing there are probably technical issues as well in order for BFC to be able to work with Steam.  BFC would probably have to build some sort of a back end way to interact with Steam somehow.  That's just a guess on my part though.

[Baneman]

... I even launch them through steam so i can have access to the overlay.

 

 

I have several Steam games, but I don't know what this means.

 

Perhaps I can learn something in this thread ?

[Jargotn]

I have several Steam games, but I don't know what this means.

 

Perhaps I can learn something in this thread ?

Pressing shift and tab at the same time opens the "steam overlay" You can use it to... uhm...

 

If I remember right the only thing you can really do is chat while in game and use a browser. Some time ago they added the ability to listen to musik while playing. Nothing to fancy, really.

[von Luck]

Yes there is a backend to working with Steam – I’m positive it has been cited before as one of the many reasons they have decided against entering the Steam community. The crux of this being that Battlefront has had hideous patching issues in the past. With the advent of things like the master installer, thank GOODNESS for that, Battlefront is slowly creeping toward a more modern model. There are still some awful choices in how the “patching” is executed however as Battlefront changes some of that backend support that Steam requires becomes easier.

von Luck

[m0317624]

I'm going to guess that it isn't necessarily just a want to or contract whatever discussion within BFC as to whether or not they go onto Steam.  I'm guessing there are probably technical issues as well in order for BFC to be able to work with Steam.  BFC would probably have to build some sort of a back end way to interact with Steam somehow.  That's just a guess on my part though.

 

There's two forms of Steam integration. The basic one means just selling your game on Steam, and requires nothing more than adding a single layer of standardized Steam code on top of your executable and making sure your patches are easily distributable without customers having to download gigabytes of files they already have. In Battlefront's case the patching system is already becoming compliant and the work that goes into changing the executable is trivial. This also means there is no real seperate code base if you also want to sell a non-Steam version of your game. The vast majority of titles on Steam are sold this way. The only minor problem for Battlefront in this would be having patches dependant on paid "engine upgrades", an already hotly-debated business practice. But there are programming ways to circumvent this issue.

 

The second form is making your game a Stamworks title. It adds a lot deeper integration with the Steam platform such as cloud saving, Steam matchmaking for MP, achievements, and so on. This requires more significant code changes and basically means Steam is mandatory for the game to run.

 

I have several Steam games, but I don't know what this means.

 

Perhaps I can learn something in this thread ?

 

Many people prefer to have all their games in one place and with one easy-to-launch interface, and Steam is typically most suitable candidate for this. In the bottom right corner of the Steam interface is a button called "Add a Game". Click on it, and one of the options you get is "Add Non-Steam Game". With this you can add any game you didn't buy on Steam, such as Combat Mission, by pointing Steam to the executable. That game then shows up in your Steam game library, you can use the Steam overlay when playing it, chat with your Steam friends from inside the game,... It basically makes the non-Steam game equivalent to the first form of Steam integration explained above.

Edited January 5, 2015 by m0317624

[A Canadian Cat]

My grasp of mathematics is tenuous at best, but doesn't that demonstrate a drastic drop-off of sales ?

LOL that was my first thought as well. And BTW cumulative revenue is not a particularly good way to look at revenue. My business migtht have pretty good looking cumulative revenue but if my current incoming cash flow is not good I am still going to have trouble playing the bills / salaries.

[Stagler]

The fact that a competely new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS is asking about steam is a sign.

 

The fact that the old guard "we hate steam because it will ruin CM crew" appear and throw down the usual stick in the mud arguments to a new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS asking a legitimate question is also a sign.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Stagler

[sburke]

The fact that a competely new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS is asking about steam is a sign that he doesn't search previously discussed topics.

 

The fact that the old guard "we hate steam because it will ruin CM crew" appear and throw down the usual stick in the mud arguments to a new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS asking a legitimate question is also a sign that we have grown tired of the same old topic.

Fixed that for you.

We don't hate steam (at least I don't). It is simply BF has stated their position, repeatedly and recently. It is after all the owners of Battlefront's right to chose what to do with their company.

[SgtHatred]

The fact that a competely new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS is asking about steam is a sign.

 

The fact that the old guard "we hate steam because it will ruin CM crew" appear and throw down the usual stick in the mud arguments to a new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS asking a legitimate question is also a sign.

 

Hey man, having a toxic, hard to find community is one of the fastest ways to grow it.

 

BFC has been in business for more than 10 years, and they know the secret of staying in business : never adapt to change.

[BlackAlpha]

 

we have grown tired of the same old topic.

 

Fixed that for you.

We don't hate steam (at least I don't). It is simply BF has stated their position, repeatedly and recently. It is after all the owners of Battlefront's right to chose what to do with their company.

 

 

Nobody is forcing you to post in this thread. People don't go around other topics, yelling at others, insulting them, just because they don't feel like discussing the topic at hand.

 

These sort of topics are good feedback for developers/publishers, so just let people post their comments in peace. Communication between the seller and consumer is very important. Besides, these sort of topics are not aimed at you, so whether you got bored of discussing the topic at hand is irrelevant. Even if the developer got bored of discussing it is irrelevant too because people will still give their feedback on what they want (or don't want) to see.

 

tldr; don't post if you have no interest in the topic at hand.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BlackAlpha

[sburke]

Nobody is forcing you to post in this thread. People don't go around other topics, yelling at others, insulting them, just because they don't feel like discussing the topic at hand.

 

These sort of topics are good feedback for developers/publishers, so just let people post their comments in peace. Communication between the seller and consumer is very important. Besides, these sort of topics are not aimed at you, so whether you got bored of discussing the topic at hand is irrelevant. Even if the developer got bored of discussing it is irrelevant too because people will still give their feedback on what they want (or don't want) to see.

 

tldr; don't post if you have no interest in the topic at hand.

So now only folks who want BF on steam are allowed to post here or respond to posts that are in fact insulting those of us who see no reason for BF to move to steam for their "survival"?

Nice.

[BlackAlpha]

So now only folks who want BF on steam are allowed to post here or respond to posts that are in fact insulting those of us who see no reason for BF to move to steam for their "survival"?

Nice.

 

No, you are allowed to say that you don't want this game to end up on Steam, like you did. The thing that you shouldn't do, is tell people to stop discussing it because you grew tired of the discussion. That is just very rude. Or like some other people did, blatantly insult people who share a different opinion than yours. That is extremely rude.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BlackAlpha

[Mord]

Hey man, having a toxic, hard to find community is one of the fastest ways to grow it.

 

BFC has been in business for more than 10 years, and they know the secret of staying in business : never adapt to change.

 

 

So, show us this super successful game company that you created—you always seem to have a smarmy little dig to throw out there—put your money where your mouth is. Show us this ingenius ground breaking tactical wargame you've made, show us your super-awesome website, and show us your massive sales figures. You seem to be quite the authority. Show BFC how it's done.

 

 

Mord.

[Baneman]

Pressing shift and tab at the same time opens the "steam overlay" You can use it to... uhm...

 

If I remember right the only thing you can really do is chat while in game and use a browser. Some time ago they added the ability to listen to musik while playing. Nothing to fancy, really.

Ah, thanks for that ( and to m0317624 ) for the explanation. So TeamSpeak/Skype and my own mp3 player explains why I've never used - or even looked for - that.

 

... the old guard "we hate steam because it will ruin CM crew" appear and throw down the usual stick in the mud arguments to a new forum member interested in purchasing CMBS asking a legitimate question is also a sign.

Nobody said "we hate steam because it will ruin CM" - actually what people said was what was in the old un-searched-for threads from the past. And they're not our arguments.

 

No, you are allowed to say that you don't want this game to end up on Steam, like you did. The thing that you shouldn't do, is tell people to stop discussing it because you grew tired of the discussion. That is just very rude. Or like some other people did, blatantly insult people who share a different opinion than yours. That is extremely rude.

Saying "I see no reason for BFC to move to Steam" is not the same as saying "I don't want this game to end up on Steam".

And I haven't seen blatant insults directed at the Pro-Steam posters either. There've been a few in the other direction though.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Baneman

[Stagler]

So, show us this super successful game company that you created—you always seem to have a smarmy little dig to throw out there—put your money where your mouth is. Show us this ingenius ground breaking tactical wargame you've made, show us your super-awesome website, and show us your massive sales figures. You seem to be quite the authority. Show BFC how it's done.

 

 

Mord.

 

Mord,

 

The Wargame series - that is how focus interactive became successful.

 

I dont work for focus, but im sure if someone from BFC asked the lads over there they could supply some figures or facts or whatever.

 

Also - most importantly - alot of us dont realise that BFC already have games onsale on steam - the theatre of war series is available there.

 

Im not bothered about buying CM series on steam. I just want to see more players - it would help the community, and would hopefully prompt BFC to invest in a proper lobbying and MP system.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Stagler

[sburke]

No, you are allowed to say that you don't want this game to end up on Steam, like you did. The thing that you shouldn't do, is tell people to stop discussing it because you grew tired of the discussion. That is just very rude. Or like some other people did, blatantly insult people who share a different opinion than yours. That is extremely rude.

Fine so the OP posted his question, he was told BF's reply at which point by your argument is this thread should have ended with the exception of folks who could then jump on and say yeah BF change your position? Am I understanding that correctly?

I see things a little differently. What I see is folks trying to share with the OP what BF's currently stated position is and then a bunch of responses essentially saying we are a bunch of decrepit old hacks who do not understand the modern business world and preventing Steam from saving Battlefront from certain doom.

And so the cycle on this discussion goes the same way it always does. So I repeat, if you want to convince BF, it would need a much more cogent argument than just saying I like buying games through steam, I buy all my games through steam and BF is just backward. They aren't stupid and they aren't averse to trying something if it fits what they want to do with their business. Apparently Steam does not fit that requirement at the moment.

My reply above was a direct response to an insulting post and yet you responded to my post, not the original. I believe that reflects a bias. Why is mine rude, but stagler's was not? Don't pretend to be the voice of reason and politeness if you can't be objective.

[Jargotn]

No, you are allowed to say that you don't want this game to end up on Steam, like you did. The thing that you shouldn't do, is tell people to stop discussing it because you grew tired of the discussion. That is just very rude. Or like some other people did, blatantly insult people who share a different opinion than yours. That is extremely rude.

 

I assess the situation a bit different:

There are two types of arguments. First there is the argument that is about arguing. You try to explain your point of view to a partner. He responds, presenting his own point of view. The goal is to inform each other or to have fun. Due to it's nature this first type is mostly used in debates about politics or ethics, due to their relative nature.

 

The second type of argument is used to come to a conclusion. People discuss to see results.

 

Now if we look back at the start of this topic:

 

I think a lot more people would be buying if this is put on Steam, such as Command Modern Air/Naval Operations. Any reason why it hasn't? Not feasible, etc? Out of curiosity, it should be considered though. I urge to put just CMBS on Steam and see if it sells better than expected?

 

the topic didn't start as an argument at all. We are not talking about why steam is good or bad for Cm. We are explaining why it is not on Steam, and why it won't be considered.

 

If you want to start a discussion about the pros and cons of Steam please feel free to do so, but please don't do it here. The thread started as something different, and discussing whithout knowing why or about what is a bad idea.

Always.

 

I hope you can understand my view of the situation.

[Na Vaske]

 

 

Also - most importantly - alot of us dont realise that BFC already have games onsale on steam - the theatre of war series is available there.

 

 

 

But that is the 1C Published version, no?  BFC didn't develop that game to my knowledge.

 

 

 

EDIT, added Screenshot of Steam.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Na Vaske

[BlackAlpha]

My reply above was a direct response to an insulting post and yet you responded to my post, not the original. I believe that reflects a bias. Why is mine rude, but stagler's was not? Don't pretend to be the voice of reason and politeness if you can't be objective.

 

Snarky comments can still contribute to something productive in a discussion (it's a valid way of doing an argument and some people only know how to argue in that manner, so you need to excuse them). On the other hand, trying to shut down a discussion (for everyone) is counter productive.

 

To clarify, with the rude comments remark I made to your reply, I really meant other people who went a bit overboard, not you.

 

 

 

 

I assess the situation a bit different:

There are two types of arguments. First there is the argument that is about arguing. You try to explain your point of view to a partner. He responds, presenting his own point of view. The goal is to inform each other or to have fun. Due to it's nature this first type is mostly used in debates about politics or ethics, due to their relative nature.

 

The second type of argument is used to come to a conclusion. People discuss to see results.

 

 

It's not just that, though. People can have different kind of goals. For example, they might be trying to change not the opinion of the person they are arguing with, but instead, trying to change the opinion of an outsider (somebody who is listening), like other people on this forum who are reading this discussion or the developers, which then can lead to a variety of different things happening.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BlackAlpha

[sburke]

Snarky comments can still contribute to something productive in a discussion (it's a valid way of doing an argument and some people only know how to argue in that manner, so you need to excuse them). On the other hand, trying to shut down a discussion (for everyone) is counter productive.

 

To clarify, with the rude comments remark I made to your reply, I really meant other people who went a bit overboard, not you.

Fair enough. My only problem is this isn't really a discussion per se. The only folks whose opinion counts is BF's. They have stated that position quite recently and to be honest they were quite blunt in their reply.

For folks who really really would prefer BF to sell on steam, why don't you try a forum poll. You don't even have to make it a yes or no. No votes honestly don't really matter as the point of the poll is just to give BF some possible numbers. I know looking at steam, the CM community is really tiny, just over 200. Granted that is folks who already know the product and are undoubtedly already on this forum. It might be useful for them to be able to get some perspective on others. Just a thought because again I don't think these threads sway their opinion at all. There just isn't any data here that gives them any pressing reason to revisit it.

BF does also have as others have noted different marketing tools in media that has an even wider audience than steam- youtube. I have seen Chris's twitch videos pop up in some interesting searches. To say BF eschews more modern advertising approaches ignores I think the efforts Chris has done. Honestly the change in the last year as to how much info you get in advance about the product is pretty amazing. We used to have to wait months for a bone and nowadays Chris tosses them almost every week. Things do change.

[A Canadian Cat]

I see things a little differently. What I see is folks trying to share with the OP what BF's currently stated position is and then a bunch of responses essentially saying we are a bunch of decrepit old hacks who do not understand the modern business world and preventing Steam from saving Battlefront from certain doom.

I would just up vote Steve's comment but my quota is all used up upvoting his other comments (that's a joke BTW). This is pretty much how I see things developing *every* time this topic comes up.

I don't think I have ever seen BFC just say "no". They point out that right now the work needed and the cons that they see are not wroth it. Both of those things can change - stay tuned you never know. I guess there are a handful of people who say they don't want steam here but that is a really small number. There are a few of us just pointing out the results from previous threads and a bunch of people who just keep repeating

"What do we want? STEAM When do we want it NOW".

Sorry there is no real value in that and insulting those of us who point that out creats even less value. Negative value in fact. I would down vote more of those comments but I my down vote quota has been exceeded for today, on this thread, again for the second day in a row.