CM Black Sea - Beta Battle Report - US/UKR Side

[JSj]

Current decisions facing Power 6:

 

What is this 6th Power you are talking about?

[antaress73]

Now that I know your force composition... try to win it with minimal losses as a challenge ,,, 

[AttorneyAtWar]

What is this 6th Power you are talking about?

 

That is the call sign hes given to the tank.

[White2Golf]

That is the call sign hes given to the tank.

Power 6 would be the callsign of the battalion commander. So he is referring to the choices the American Task Force commander has to make.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Power 6 would be the callsign of the battalion commander. So he is referring to the choices the American Task Force commander has to make.

 

I stand corrected, thanks.

 

I thought he was referring to that specific tank that was vulnerable on the map at the reinforcement location.

[White2Golf]

I stand corrected, thanks.

 

I thought he was referring to that specific tank that was vulnerable on the map at the reinforcement location.

No worries my friend.

Power 6 = The Battalion CO

Power 66 = The Old Man's ride. :-). (Ok, the bumper number would be HQ66, but you get my drift. Lol)

[pnzrldr]

Quick request - my current boss is an old member of the Speed & Power crew, and the Company and BN callsigns I'm using reflect his input.  However I know that especially at Company level these tend to change from time to time and aren't always kept up for historical purpose.  Can anyone provide me with definitive, right now, 3-69 AR callsigns?  I tried googling but could not penetrate the miasma of Army web ineptitude.  

[Michael Emrys]

 I'd likely issue some immediate orders to pop smoke to get a screen up. and get the force into cover/formation.  In particular cover the Brads.  You don't want to lose your infantry force right away considering the state of the force you had on board is so bad now.

 

I am mostly withholding comments/suggestions in this thread for two reasons: 1) I presently don't know s**t about 21st. century warfare (I pretty much stopped following developments with the end of the Cold War); and 2) I don't know much about how BFC is representing it in the game yet. However...what sburke offers above sounds like good advice to me just on general principles. It sounds like your forces arrive in a somewhat vulnerable state, so your first priority should be preservation. Anything you lose now will be doubly missed five turns down the road. On the other hand (and yes, there is always another hand), you don't want to pass up any chance to knock down any of Bil's more valuable assets early on. Keeping those two thoughts in mind, it's your call (as we always knew it was). Good luck. Now go out and kill something!

 

Michael

Edited December 30, 2014 by Michael Emrys

[sburke]

I am mostly withholding comments/suggestions in this thread for two reasons: 1) I presently don't know s**t about 21st. century warfare (I pretty much stopped following developments with the end of the Cold War); and 2) I don't know much about how BFC is representing it in the game yet. However...what sburke offers above sounds like good advice to me just on general principles. It sounds like your forces arrive in a somewhat vulnerable state, so your first priority should be preservation. Anything you lose now will be doubly missed five turns down the road. On the other hand (and yes, there is always another hand), you don't want to pass up any chance to knock down any of Bil's more valuable assets early on. Keeping those two thoughts in mind, it's your call (as we always knew it was). Good luck. Now go out and kill something!

 

Michael

For what it is worth I know less than s**t about 21st century warfare.  I do however have a fair amount of time in testing CMBS.   I have learned how what seems to be a strong force can quickly become a lot of scrap.  I have also learned managing your UAVs can be tricky.  Being dumped on board in parade formation would scare the bejeezus out of me.

[pnzrldr]

“Vovk, Brytva 22 at checkpoint 2.  No sign of enemy.  We see nothing at the farm.  We are continuing.”

Serzhant Klim Levitsky, commander of Tunguska Razor 22 was so scared he could barely hold still.  Yet his fear gave him focus, and his crew simply thought he was extraordinarily attentive to his duty.  As air defense soldiers, their training and education was a notch above the infantry and other combat soldiers.  Klim had two years at University!  But ever since the Russian invasion, their world had narrowed to the grease, wiring and electrical tape necessary to keep their complex vehicle rolling and operating.  Though the electrical components were sealed, Levitsky had taught them together how to troubleshoot basic faults using a wiring diagram and a breakout box.  Their Battery mechanic had helped, although the radar tech had cautioned them to leave the fire control system alone.  He also led them through training drills, using their system to track birds visually, and to run the appropriate tests and checks on the missiles, fuze setters, lead computing sight, slew and elevation mechanisms and the cannon feed systems.  A nightmare of complexity when compared with a simple main battle tank, yet Serzhant Levitsky loved it, and was grateful for the opportunity to systematically engage any aircraft that came within his weapon’s range.

 

Unfortunately, Levitsky was not quite emotionally prepared for the chaos of combat.  While his technical and tactical skills were first rate, adapting oneself to the understanding that nothing was ever going to go according to plan was difficult for the orderly young college student.  Assigned to the Krichek air defense sector, he had absorbed the air defense plan, airspace control measures, IFF settings and learned to follow the rules of engagement to prevent them from engaging a NATO aircraft (and potentially losing NATO Air Support!).  But as the situation in Krichek became more desperate, he started getting anxious.  While his less organized peers adapted grimly to the new tasks of building a ground defense, Klim stuck doggedly to his air defense doctrine.  Not until KPT Kovtun himself had carefully walked him through the rehearsal for his role, had he allowed himself to accept that he might actually execute this plan.  Now he was rolling forward, unsupported to check out a Russian recon truck that had been spotted earlier by LT Lysenko, and his mind was reeling.  The artillery of the last half hour had rattled him badly, and his linkage to the command and control nets only fueled his fears as station after station stopped reporting, some with audible finality.  He fully expected to see the deadly snout of a Russian T-90 leveled at him with every new meter of ground he could see.  Only the familiar acid-tang smell electronics mixed with grease had kept him stable.  Outwardly though, he remained not only in control but rigidly focused, rattling off precise clipped commands and scanning literally non-stop.

“Gunner, ground burst, four-zero rounds, at the left side of the building,” he spoke into his intercom headset.

“Identified, armed,” said the gunner, followed an instant later by the radar operator:

“Safety off!”

“Fire.” 

“Firing!” 

The buzz saw whined, the twin cannons firing at a combined rate of well over 4000 round per minute, spitting a greater weight of explosive at the building than a tank round.  The building shuddered under the impact. 

“Repeat engagement, fire.” Another burst spat out, followed by another.  On the third, the building collapsed in a heap. 

“Confirm no truck,” the Serzhant said.

“Nothing,” the gunner responded.

“We have alerted the enemy – wide area scan,” Levitsky said.  As he spoke, a loud detonation sounded just outside the track to the left.  Peering through his cupola window, he calmly said:

“Correction, scan left.  Infantry 100 meters.” The turret slewed instantly to the ten o’clock position.

“I see them!”

“Gunner, ground burst, four-zero rounds, Infantry, fire!”  Klim’s voice finally rose as he gave the command to kill another human being, but his whirling mind that wanted to blubber uncontrollably was locked into near-robotic adherence to his repetitive training.  The Russian scout, inexplicably trying to run after his near miss with the RPG, suddenly reversed course when the twin lines of destruction blasted parallel paths to his front and rear. 

“Miss, reengage, fire and track.”

“Firing!”

This time the rounds physically struck the sprinting Russian, blowing his torso nearly in half and tossing pieces of him into the nearby trees.  Klim’s eyes nearly bugged out of his head in shock, but his voice remained ice cold and smooth.

“Return to wide area scan.”

“Look, another one!” the gunner sang out.  Again Klim responded automatically,

“Gunner, ground burst, five-zero rounds, Infantry, fire.” 

This time the burst caught the second Russian the first time, fragments tossing him to the ground like a shotgun blast to a running hare.  His blood painted the grass, and Klim could see his eyes go glassy through his magnified sight. 

“Continue to scan.  Radar Operator, check feed chute linkages and compensator fluids.” 

Klim told himself that he could handle this.  He would get used to it and it would somehow become okay.  He thought about the fact that he had just blotted two or more men from the planet, but then immediately refocused on how to keep his track alive.  He knew his designated route for this patrol, but also knew that he was unlikely to have killed all the scouts that threatened his fragile track.  Gears in his mind whirred and clicked into a new pattern, and he spoke again.

“Hey, uh, driver.  When we move out, we’ll pull back around behind these trees, not out in front of them.  And I want you to focus on keeping the ride nice and smooth so Mykola can scan, okay?  That was really well done.  We are in it deep, but we will get through it together. Remember our training, but think hard about what we must do.”  He wiped sweat from his brow and rubbed his gloved hands on his thighs. 

“Here, guns, have some water.  Everyone take a drink, but save the vodka for later.  We need to stay sharp.” 

“Vovk, this is Brytva 22.  Engaged and killed two enemy scouts.  Cannot identify truck.  Continuing patrol.” 

 

http://youtu.be/DiLjwZjG7k8

 

Brytva 22 is actually Robocop

 

In Starov village, LT Martynyuk was angry.  He knew what was happening – his experience back in 2014 left him in no doubt that the wheels had come off the car, and his mortar platoon was in trouble.  He strode towards one gun team to get confirmation on their round count – he knew he could call, but felt the urge to see his men up close.  As he approached the section truck, he felt a shock through the ground that merged with a concussive ‘Boom!’ from just beyond the village.  He looked, and saw another column of smoke marking the end of yet another Ukrainian BMP.  He looked over at the gun crew, then up at the cab of the truck.  The driver was smoking a cigarette. 

“Soldat.  You have an RPG, yes?”

Like a child caught with a sweet, the young man froze his mouth agape, staring at the officer as though the words were in a foreign language.

“Well, do you?”

“Yes, Leytenant!”

“Get it, get all your ammo, and go over to that building there.  Tell the Serzhant of 1^st Platoon that you are there to help.  If any Russian tanks come through, I am counting on you to stop them.  You understand?  You must cover us – we cannot fight tanks with mortars”

Breathing hard, the pimple-faced soldier jumped down from the cab.

“Yessir.  I…   I will.  I understand.”  He fumbled with his ammo satchel with the rockets sticking out, but got it slung and jogged off without another word.

Martynyuk watched him go, wondering if he would ever see him again.  He needed to ask him his name.

 

[Justicar]

Longtime lurker/player, first post here. But I have to say, this AAR is written B E A utifully. Keep it up!

[JSj]

Power 6 would be the callsign of the battalion commander. So he is referring to the choices the American Task Force commander has to make.

 

Of course, I should have realized that. Thanks for clearing that up.

[c3k]

Very nice! I -thought- the Tunguska actually had two dual cannon? Total of four cylinders of smoking death!

 

Reinforcement strategy: sure, a pre-planned linear smoke mission would be nice. You know, if you're the kind of guy to hide behind a curtain while you try to figure out what to do.   Pop smoke??? Is that the kind of attack they're teaching US Armor officers these days? Sheez. What did they used to say? Hmm. Oh, this is it: "Panzers, marsch!"  HUNT, SLOW, FAST: it doesn't matter! Sure, you'll have losses. That will only elevate the actions of those who survive. Attack! You've been given a knife: stab the enemy with it! Plunge it into him. It doesn't matter where, or how deep, just draw blood! It's the will, not the result, which matters. Hide behind smoke and you'll let all your men think it's okay to hide when the fight is on.

 

How many Abrams can he kill in a single turn anyway?

 

 

    

[theforger]

Sure you could take the Colonel Pitts approach, (Larry Hagman) The Eagle Has Landed....or caution, caution, caution. With that force you should be able to march on Moscow! You'll be busted to private if you rush in and get smoked.  Lives at stake. Am I taking this all too seriously? 

[Vinnart]

Brytva 22 is actually Robocop

 

Good analogy. That is is exactly what it looked like. Talk about being quick on the draw!

[John Kettler]

pnzrldr,

 

In light of the proliferation of first, TV backup systems on SAM systems for operation in jamming environments, and now, FLIR to do the same thing, I decided to look into the question of FLIR on Tunguska. I think some corrections may be in order. From the amazing Dr. Carlo Kopp and his Australia Airpower site.

 

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-96K6-Pantsir-2K22-Tunguska.html

 

Optical Sensors

Early variants of the Tunguska series introduced an electroptical tracker to provide silent angle tracking in jamming environments. The electro-optical tracking system includes a longwave (8 - 14 μm band) thermal imager for target acquisition and tracking, and a dual band short (3 - 5 μm) / midwave  (0.6 -1.1. μm) IR tracker for angular measurement of the missile beacon.

 

The Tunguska has a full-on FLIR, and by 2017 likely a better one than above, which allows it to conduct gun and missile engagements without any radar emissions. Said FLIR would presumably also be usable vs. ground targets, thus giving your horribly cut up Ukrainians two FLIR equipped AFVs--nasty ones at that. In short, you may be able to do to Bil's AFVs and infantry hiding in foliage something like what he's done to yours. Savage them when they think they're concealed. With something of the order of a 5 meter blast radius per shell, I'd think it would be pretty easy to grease infantry, even sans FLIR.

 

While we're on Tunguska, I was wondering whether the system and subsystem modeling is granular enough to permit multiple hits on the Acq/Track radar antenna, without killing it outright? The key component, after all, isn't the antenna per se, which is pretty projectile damage tolerant, but the small feed horn via which the radar does its thing. Also, can you stow the radar for ground engagements when not under air attack threat?

 

MikeyD,

 

I think you misunderstand how laser designation for weapons work. You don't have to lase continuously, but only in the far shorter period immediately preceding weapon launch and TOF to the target. Thus, the lasing unit might get a "two minutes out" warning for CAS and a "shot out" call from artillery. this makes tracking the target and lasing it a much easier proposition. Also a laser guided weapons these days doesn't have to be precisely aimed. Rather, it simply has to arrive in an acquisition basket in which the seeker's FOVs allows it to see the reflected laser spot from the now-designated target. When I worked at Hughes, we made a laser-guided version of Maverick for Marine CAS, and I'm thoroughly familiar with how these weapons work.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler 

Edited December 30, 2014 by John Kettler

[antaress73]

so lasing for precision guided artillery should be doable even if the target moves a fair bit 

[sburke]

so lasing for precision guided artillery should be doable even if the target moves a fair bit

Define "a fair bit"

[antaress73]

redeploying 100 meters away or in a better position but still in LOS of the observer .. not staying stationary because stationary is death

[sburke]

in CM terms that is about 12 AS, I'd say it would fail if you can't keep eyes on it.  If you can keep eyes on it, the FO will adjust.

[MikeyD]

Tunguska's a monster but its ammo supply is limited and it burns though it quickly. If you shoot up drones you might not have sufficient ammo for engaging ground targets, if you shoot up ground targets you might not have sufficient ammo for drones. After the ammo's gone its nothing but a brick on wheels.

 

As to precision strikes, I was watching Chris's Youtube battle last night, he was playing Russian side. He had placed an order for a precision strike on a distant BMP-2. But before the strike came the vehicle adjusted its position slightly. He lost LOS behind a line of trees and had to call off the strike. Of course if the thing had stayed in LOS of the observer it would'a been clobbered despite having moved.

[pnzrldr]

For precision strikes, laser has the advantage of allowing for some target movement.  GPS has the advantage of not having to acquire the laser spot, and not providing target warning, counterattack or countermeasures to come into play.  Believe that for most laser engagements, you are really only designating the target for the last seconds of flight.  Also believe that in this environment of laser warning receivers, units would extend that as far as practical, and that both designation and ranging lasers would frequently be used in a 'lase offset' technique to try and avoid warning the target.  However, this would reduce the chance of PGM laser acquisition, which is never 100% and likely closer to 60/40 under battlefield conditions. 

 

John - you tell me in one instant that the radar is irrelevant, and then ask my opinion on the damage model for it?  ;-)  Horn - fragile.  Dish - not so much.  Rotating gear (attached to dish) fragile, hates vibration or misbalance.  Also, FWIW, believe the systems sensitivity to dish damage is very likely dependent upon what we are asking the radar to do.  Detect presence of target with some damage = no problem.  Provide precise range data to fire control computer with damaged dish = more problematic.  BL:  I am near-certain w/o asking that BFC is  modeling this thing as 'radar.'  The reverse of granular.  Remember, our game is primarily a ground conflict and the focus is on that.  

[c3k]

Laser guided artillery: someone (JK?) posted a great link on the Soviet/Russian stuff.

 

The lasing team has to coordinate with the specially trained gun-team. Orientation of the laser matters. They need to be under the shell's path, plus or minus 15 degrees. The lase has to start at a specific time prior to impact. The shooters have to loft the shell into a specific basket for it to catch the laser. It's more complex than pointing a laser at a tank and waiting 10 seconds for it to go "boom".

 

The longer you lase, the shorter you live.

 

But that's not what this thread is about...other than the "shorter to live" part.

[A Canadian Cat]

This time don't listen to Ken.

When your vehicles are jammed together like that it will take some time to untangle them. Things will get much worse if multiple vehicles get lazed and take evasive action.

[John Kettler]

pnzrldr,

 

I didn't say the radar was irrelevant. I said that the Tunguska had a FLIR system as a backup in the event of jamming. I went on to point out that the FLIR (and a LRF I forgot to mention in there somewhere, maybe for both radar and IR engagements) not only allows radar silent operation, but should allow FLIR use to acquire and engage ground targets in the same devastating manner as those BMP-3s and T-90AMs have done to you. My question about damage tolerance was deliberately kept simple because the antenna is the largest presented area to incoming fire. I agree that there are other components, damage to which could cause all sorts of problems, some radar killing (wave guides, power) but I thought I'd start with the principal issue and work from there. Obviously, if you had the data, time and inclination, you could map out all the various nodes and critical paths covering every aspect of the radar's vulnerability to incoming fire--from a whole series of attack angles, too.  I don't know whether there's been a change, but when we were doing Cold War vulnerability analyses, there was no integrated weapon lethality modeling. IOW, there were figures for blast vulnerability, KE strikes and fire, but nothing which could calculate the overall effects of two or more from the same attack event. Regret any confusion I may've caused.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler