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CM Black Sea – BETA Battle Report - Russian Side


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Do you have any means of clearing mines if there are some around the power station?

 

Nope... if that area is mined I need to come up with another way to gain entry.

 

Hi Bil

 

That would be some Tunguska love that Scott wants to share Bil.

You really have the devil by the tail when it comes to them unless you have some anti armor capacity.

The T90s near the Power Station are really hammering the defenders and I have a question.

 

Do you plan to attack the power station with the T-90s working with a motor rifle company or is it going to be the T-90s providing overwatch while the dismounted Infantry storm the gates ?

I'm just wondering how your going to tackle the power station in a little more detail.

 

Cheers

Stephen

 

Stephen... the T90s are going to join my Assault Company when the other platoons are in the assembly area... so for now they will be providing support for the 3rd MRC which in your wisdom you dismounted.   :angry:

 

I need to scout the perimeter and the entry points before I make a plan for entering and taking the objective... I doubt it'll be a cunning plan.. the entry points are obvious.  Unfortunately I wasn't thinking too clearly during setup because I placed the scout teams that do have breach kits on the other side of the map... and they would have to run a Tunguska gauntlet to get to the Power Station... if the entrances are mined I might need to just invest the objective until I can figure something else out.

Edited by Bil Hardenberger
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I'll light a candle for you.    

First post here.   Been playing since CMBN and I just wanted to say thank you Bil for your excellent posts as I have been following for quite some time without joining the forums.   Quite excited

I wouldn't say it is a walk in the park, but the US equipment does have some significant advantages.  Bil is also factoring in who he is playing.  If it were me instead of PL, Bil would more than like

 

I need to scout the perimeter and the entry points before I make a plan for entering and taking the objective... I doubt it'll be a cunning plan.. the entry points are obvious.  Unfortunately I wasn't thinking too clearly during setup because I placed the scout teams that do have breach kits on the other side of the map... and they would have to run a Tunguska gauntlet to get to the Power Station... if the entrances are mined I might need to just invest the objective until I can figure something else out.

 

What about breaching with your AFVs? Either drive a tank through a wall and then retreat or shoot with HE until the wall is no more.

 

That could work, right?

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Apologies if this has been covered earlier, but do you have HIND’s available and/or recon helicopters?  I would think Russia on the attack would use HINDs.   The helicopters might help keep the Tunguska’s occupied in the normal AA role of Tunguskas.   Also, will the helicopters be seen on the map hugging the tree line?

 

I am guessing US Attack helicopters might be on the way as well…

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Apologies if this has been covered earlier, but do you have HIND’s available and/or recon helicopters?  I would think Russia on the attack would use HINDs.   The helicopters might help keep the Tunguska’s occupied in the normal AA role of Tunguskas.   Also, will the helicopters be seen on the map hugging the tree line?

 

I am guessing US Attack helicopters might be on the way as well…

No aircraft are ever visible.

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Thanks sburke, I was hoping helicopters would be visible, and not considered purely aircraft.  (I bet the models would look awesome coming in over the hills on the map!!)

 

MikeyD, I agree, the Tunguska would be deadly for helos.  I believe that is the role they are built for.   I think they can only illuminate/guide a single SA-19 to a target at a time, and was hoping Bill could get close to it while it was busy with a helo.   Or vice versa, while it is distracted with ground attack, a helo or jet could get a shot on it.

 

Thanks for the help, I am really enjoying this review by Bill; and looking forward to rest of the battle.

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What about breaching with your AFVs? Either drive a tank through a wall and then retreat or shoot with HE until the wall is no more.

 

That could work, right?

 

No that won't work with the high walls.. they will not drive through them... and if you try to fire at them, the tank fires an airburst instead.  I tested that.   ;)

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Apologies if this has been covered earlier, but do you have HIND’s available and/or recon helicopters? ...

 

I am guessing US Attack helicopters might be on the way as well…

 

Yes I have helicopters.. my problem is that only Air Controllers can call in air support (other than UAVs) and they can only call in one mission at a time... and I only have one Air Controller... so they are not as flexible as they could be.

 

Yes I expect the US side will come in with AH-64 support. 

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No that won't work with the high walls.. they will not drive through them... and if you try to fire at them, the tank fires an airburst instead.  I tested that.   ;)

That sounds like a programming bug. The tanks should be selecting HE against buildings and walls. Air burst against infantry in the open only.

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There is no way to directly target a wall like you can a building.  Would be nice, but it appears, as antaress73 says,

  like the game assumes you want to kill infantry hiding behind the wall, and to me that is acceptable, if not ideal.  For me in this game, that means I need to think of another way to deal with this objective.  

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There is no way to directly target a wall like you can a building.  Would be nice, but it appears, as antaress73 says,

  like the game assumes you want to kill infantry hiding behind the wall, and to me that is acceptable, if not ideal.  For me in this game, that means I need to think of another way to deal with this objective.  

I am pretty sure I have targeted walls at least in ww2. by area firing at the ground at the base of the wall not targeting the wall it self, but the action square it is in. In the case of CMBS it appears it chooses air burst for area fire vs HE used in ww2 which is why it probably won't work in CMBS the same way. So, yes it has nothing to do with programming as I originally stated. I forgot I used to target the ground, not the wall to do it because of the different ammo used in the two games. In this case it makes more sense for the AI to choose air burst for area fire when targeting ground since it assumes the main use will be to kill infantry.

 

Edit: Since it is something I don't do every day, or often I ran a test. You can destroy walls as I described, but probably not in CMBS using air burst.

Edited by Vinnart
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Bil,

 

I find it extremely odd you can't breach a wall by direct fire, considering most of the T-90's ammo load is HE-Frag, exactly as has been true since before WW II for Russian tanks. The Ainets system which is bedeviling you is simply an add-on to the basic gunnery situation, but the projectile is the projectile, and nothing should preclude it from DF use vs structures, as opposed to occupants.  While the airburst capability is useful and lethal, I believe that it should in no way prevent classical HE Fuze SQ (still no Fuze DELAY, presumably) attacks vs structures. 

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

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It is obviously a game mechanics issue. Tanks use HE directly against buildings (except open roofs, which receive air burst HE). Air burst against most wall types in game would be most effective against troops sheltering behind walls, and essential for attacking troops behind very strong "walls" like bocage. Only in the case of tall walls is the choice of direct HE or airburst more circumstantial. Likely the game is not distinguishing between types of walls, and of course the game cannot read your mind when it comes to airburst or breach against a tall wall. If it comes down to air burst or direct attack against all walls, air burst is the preferred default. I'll check if an exception can be made for tall walls, as I suspect breaching would be preferred in most cases for that wall type specifically.

Edited by akd
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It is obviously a game mechanics issue. Tanks use HE directly against buildings (except open roofs, which receive air burst HE). Air burst against most wall types in game would be most effective against troops sheltering behind walls, and essential for attacking troops behind very strong "walls" like bocage. Only in the case of tall walls is the choice of direct HE or airburst more circumstantial. Likely the game is not distinguishing between types of walls, and of course the game cannot read your mind when it comes to airburst or breach against a tall wall. If it comes down to air burst or direct attack against all walls, air burst is the preferred default. I'll check if an exception can be made for tall walls, as I suspect breaching would be preferred in most cases for that wall type specifically.

 

Associating that exception with the regular Target command might be a good idea so that 'Target' in the context of an action spot featuring a tall wall meaning 'demolish', and 'Target Light' means 'kill stuff behind the wall'. I understand the limitations of what the UI can convey, but the 'one-dimensionality' of certain commands becomes more apparent in modern titles, where vehicles have a quite varied set of weapons mounted.

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In previous versions, I was under the impression that though the target line went to the centre of the (half) AS in front of the wall, the TacAI actually semi-intelligently understood that you were targeting the wall and fired directly at it. Seems a fairly simple and straightforward assumption that if there's a wall in the target AS, you want to flatten it rather than make a crater in front of it.

 

Of course airburst complicates things, since it will often make destroying the wall of secondary importance, but I'm surprised that a 100mm-plus airburst isn't fairly effective at destroying walls anyway. Do you have any weapon systems that aren't capable of airburst? Is the BMP-3 autocannon equipped that way (not that I'd expect it to fire) or do you have any other a/c-armed units in the area?

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If target light is used does BMP-3 use its 30mm? That can bust walls.

 

I guess it all boils down at reckoning what's a reasonable ammo expenditure, you would probably need to 'cut' a man-sized hole in the wall. 

 

Thinking about it, such a system to get through walls reminds me of something out of a Roger Moore's Bond movie - pretty ludicrous :)

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I guess it all boils down at reckoning what's a reasonable ammo expenditure, you would probably need to 'cut' a man-sized hole in the wall. 

 

Thinking about it, such a system to get through walls reminds me of something out of a Roger Moore's Bond movie - pretty ludicrous :)

Seeing the damage that WW2 30mm does in CM to such "light" constructions as standalone walls, it wouldn't take more'n a burst or two... Not so bad, IMO.

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