Scenario Editor and CM's soon to be release.....

[Guest Capt_Manieri]

I know that BTS have incessantly said that they WILL NOT have a D-day beach combat. This upsets me a little bit. But don't worry. I'm not suicidal or anything. What I'm wondering is can I make my own beach on the scenario editor? I mean, can I put German MG-42's up top a tannish-bleak land scape with water to the side and advancing Americans? I don't even care about the landing craft. I just want the scenario to open with the set-up where I can set troops along the beach at the edge of the water. That'd be really cool if the editor is that powerful to do that. I'll lock myself in my room for eons and play the game and let my grades slip.

My other inquiry is directed towards the completion of CM. I've been waiting since Nov. 15.......I fear I may go mad. With ****ty-ass wargames out there (like West Front and Panzer General) I cannot express my frustration enough when I force myself to play these cheap-substitutes to CM. All I have to sustain me is the Demo scenarios.......HELP.

~Captain Manieri....out.

[Guest Capt_Manieri]

DOES ANYONE ELSE BESIDES ME WANT TO DO A D-DAY BEACH COMBAT SCENARIO??? I THINK IT'D BE WORTH IT TO ENABLE THE EDITOR TO MAKE SUCH AS SCENARIO.....

[Fionn]

It is possible to come close to a beach landing scenario...

Treat it just like a big river crossing with lots of arty FOs etc etc...

It isn't much fun though. MG Pillboxes are absolutely deadly.

In the game I've stopped infantry companies cold at 300+ metres with a line of 2 or 3 pillboxes.

Reducing a prepared defensive position is going to be a skill that many, many gamers aren't going to master. I have a few tricks but I'm going to preserve them to spring on PBEM opponents (or, at least, a tactics article on CMHQ.)

There should be one about tank movement going up on CMHQ as a xmas present which should be good for ya'll.

I made an Omaha scenario in which 1 platoon of Germans, a few pillboxes and some mortars wiped out close to a battalion of infantry as they hit the beaches. It IS possible to make cliffs, bluffs, place pillboxes atop the bluffs, create ways off the "nominal" beaches etc etc

A simple BMP modification would be all that would be necessary to create something that "looked" like sand. It'd still have the cover attributes of grass though since that's hard-coded.

All in all I expect people to make a beach landing scenario or two and then simply realise that any proper beach defence will simply blast attackers apart and it isn't much fun.

Capt_Manieri: Many people have been here for over a year . Imagine what they feel like

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Boris Balaban]

Fionn in your beach set up (I too am not in favor of a killing field with no hope for the attacker) the water could be a river as you said and shallow for infantry and vehicles to move in.

The only question can you start your setup in water?

[Fionn]

Well you can start your setup with troops in asault boats in the water.

What I did was I had the first wave on the land's edge with some Shermans (to simulate Duplex Drive tanks)

And another wave about 600 metres offshore and coming in.. I had a third wave coming in about 10 minutes later (reinforcements).

Mixing fords and deep water would give you shallows etc.

It isn't perfect of course and personally I think those scenarios are virtually no fun since they are so one-sided but people can certainly mock something approximate up to feed their "beach assault" need.

Personally I think everyone is gonna want to make one BIG tankfest scenario, one beach assault and one "assault the siegfried line" scenario.

After playing one of each you'll then get down to the more realistic real core of the game ..

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Guest scurlock]

Wow, how far apart were your pillboxes? I can't remember exactly, but I seem to remember reading the pillboxes in Normandy being as far as nearly a kilometer apart. If you could also simulate direct fire from destroyers, DUKW tanks, bomardment from the big guns, multiple waves of reinforcements, you'd get close to reality. If the Germans get realistic motor support it'd still be a killing field, but I'd think the U.S. should get off the beach.

[Los]

First off, yes you can make some D-day or other beach landings very easily. While there is not a beach terrain tile per se, you can use open ground. You can make a slight elevation change, w/ the rough terrain tile to show the shingle and everything else, bunkers and whatnot are there. You even have naval gunfire in the game so you can do that too if you need. Fionn has said this already so it's not news. All it takes is a little imagination (and a "work-around" or two)and you will have quite a nice scenario built.

I hope people who request OMaha beach are not viewed as "ghouls" or boring (Which I sort of got the impression of when this thread has come up in the past) It's simply another tactical problem to be solved even if it puts a soldier in pretty much one of the worse case scenario. (I doubt vey seriously that when people start clamoring for human wave assaults in CM2 or whatever that you'll get the same opinions of too bloody or boring.) That doesn't mean you can't accomplish the task of try various what if to see if you could do it better. Nor does a scenario have to entail thousands of troops and miles of coastline, even a few companies and a strip of beach will do fine. I was just over to Omaha beach myself back in May, a caveat to any would be scenario designers, most of the major pill boxes etc were not sighted to fire directly out at sea but aimed and positioned to fire down the beaches, which made it extra difficult to put rounds into them from the water.

You know what I'm thinking you could even make some destroyers or whatnot! Build a few "islands" out there and put either pillboxes or individual arty peices to do DF right onto the beach. (Makes me want to run to the scenario editor.)

Cheers...

Los

[Guest L Tankersley]

While a D-Day beach assault is not something I'd want to play against another human, it could be interesting as a tactical problem to solve against the AI, and as a learning experience.

Leland J. Tankersley

P.S. Good idea re: the naval gunfire, Los!

[Fionn]

Los,

When I did a mockup I had a "staging area" of land out to sea from which I ferried follow-on waves to the land. I also set up FOs there in woods and thus was able to simulate both IF and DF (with a few large howitzers) fire as well as the whole craft returning for later waves.

My scenario had 2 pillboxes on about 500 metres of sand. I felt this was quite reasonable since the terrain I chose to recreate was an exit from the beach and thus would have been protected with a pillbox to either side.

I don't think people who want this are ghouls at all. I just think it'd be a real killer scenario to play .. Losing 33% of your 1st wave in 60 seconds isn't fun let me tell you

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers