Suggestion for a better IRON difficulty

[womble]

...I personally would like to be able to make C2 necessary for orders.

And so you can. Just don't issue any orders to units that don't have C2. Job Done.

[General Jack Ripper]

Squad sees/spots HQ..

and HQ sees/spots squad...

...yet visual C2 doesn't ever seem to occur, even at 12m range!

You are misunderstanding the use of the icons in the game interface. The C2 Icons in the lower left of the interface, just above the suppression meter, show the current links between the selected unit and it's higher chain of command.

Look at 3 Section HQ in your second screenshot. Notice the green dots next to each unit in the small UNIT screen on the lower right. This means the currently selected Section HQ is in C2 contact with each of it's detachments.

However, 3 Section HQ is NOT in contact with 1 troop, hence the lack of C2 Links on the left.

In the screenshot above, 1 Detachment is in voice contact with 3 Section HQ, but cannot see them because they are inside a house. It does NOT mean 3 Section HQ cannot see 1 Detachment, that information is just not presented in the game interface. Why? Because it doesn't matter.

Remember: C2 Links are always shown from bottom to the top of the chain of command, NOT from the top down. The only top down interface is in the HQ unit's UNIT or FORMATION section on the right.

I hope this helps, because I'm not very good with text. Perhaps I should make a video explaining how C2 works. Hell, I could probably animate the entire game manual.

[Lt Bull]

You are misunderstanding the use of the icons in the game interface.

I don't think that is the case here. Read on..

Look at 3 Section HQ in your second screenshot. Notice the green dots next to each unit in the small UNIT screen on the lower right. This means the currently selected Section HQ is in C2 contact with each of it's detachments.

However, 3 Section HQ is NOT in contact with 1 troop, hence the lack of C2 Links on the left.

I understand and I am not disputing any of that. The problem is that VISUAL C2 does not exist between Section HQ and Detachment 1. Not that those green dots do not indicate the type/quality of C2 link (would be useful if they could, using different colours).

In the screenshot above, 1 Detachment is in voice contact with 3 Section HQ, but cannot see them because they are inside a house. It does NOT mean 3 Section HQ cannot see 1 Detachment, that information is just not presented in the game interface. Why? Because it doesn't matter.

?? Not sure what you are saying/implying here. If 1 Detachment doesn't see 3 Section HQ then why does the 3 Section HQ icon appear when I select 1 Detachment during the replay phase (doing so shows all icons of other units spotted/seen by the selected unit).

Perhaps I should make a video explaining how C2 works.

Might not be necessary just yet, but you have said nothing to convince me that a misunderstanding of how icons work is responsible for the oddities that I am reporting.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I would have some delay on new orders arriving. However perhaps this might be included only in a new "Tungsten" level of difficulty

[Vanir Ausf B]

Thanks for that Vanir Ausf B, I realise now I had never understood the difference between Elite and Iron correctly.

Funnily enough, I may actually have you (and womble) to blame for that misunderstanding! You quoted Peregrine and I followed the link to where you got that from. What a great read. I am sure I probably read the first few pages back in the day and just believed what I read:

I struggle with the guilt. I sooth my conscience by pointing out the differences as often as possible.

According to the "only what the unit can see information" revealed during the replays, it did appear that the squad actually can see the HQ unit. So why is there no visual C2?

I can't explain it either.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I decided to do some testing on differences between Iron and Elite, and I think I have discovered a difference no one has mentioned before. I was certainly unaware of it.

It appears that Elite allows visual C2 to be maintained in some situations where there is no LOS.

IRON mode: HQ is Hiding behind low wall. They and the team out front have no LOS to each other and consequently no C2.

ELITE mode: Same situation, but the team is allowed distant visual C2 despite no LOS.

It seems to be allowed in situations where the loss of LOS is marginal. If you replace the low wall with a tall wall C2 is not allowed in Elite.

[sburke]

Thanks Vanir, another reason to stick with Iron

[A Canadian Cat]

Wow, very interesting and enlightening. Thanks for the demonstrations guys.

I am feeling less holier than thou that usual:D

[Lt Bull]

I decided to do some testing on differences between Iron and Elite, and I think I have discovered a difference no one has mentioned before. I was certainly unaware of it.

It appears that Elite allows visual C2 to be maintained in some situations where there is no LOS.

Yes, though I would refine it as where there is no LOS but potentially could be LOS if one/or both units were to change their stance (ie. from prone to standing). It seems that perhaps Elite looks at whether at least one of the units could theoretically spot the other for visual C2 to be established.

Either way, I don't think the manual definition is the full story, as we have seen in both examples we have shown.