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I know this is an old thread, but I recently came across some real world info directly relevant to Scorpion W2 OCP. According to a most informative heavily illustrated Page 7 in the latest USPatriotTactical.usual catalog, Scorpion W2 Uniform OCP is going to be the official uniform, replacing all other camouflage uniforms, by 30 September 2019. In case there's any doubt on the matter, both Multicam and ACU are explicitly prohibited from wear after September 30, 2019.  Boots, belts and undedshirts will all be Coyote and Sand, which is true presently for Multicam, but not ACU, which is Sand only, The firm is not yet offering any items in Scorpion W2 OCP, but lists them as "Coming Soon." This firm's retail stores are near/on (not sure) major military bases and posts in CONUS, and its customers are chiefly active duty military. It also handles government contracts. Whiie the above info is nowhere in the league of an AR, if nothing else, this is what U.S. Patriot Tactical is telling its military customers. Being wrong could be expensive for the company and customers alike.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler
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On 11/10/2014 at 9:49 AM, ChrisND said:

Definitely Skorpion W2 (which to the untrained eye looks like Multicam). Nothing to show you in-game yet though, it is still a work in progress.

I'm a bit of an untrained eye when it comes to this. What's the actual difference between multi-cam and Skorpion W2?

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The question is the current and former NATO military man.
If a soldier buys at his own expense a uniform that differs in the form of camouflage, he will be allowed to wear it or forbid until the whole company has such a uniform.

Вопрос нынешним и бывшим военнослужащим НАТО .
Если солдат купит за свой счёт униформу которая отличается видом камуфляжа , ему разрешат её носить или запретят пока у всей роты не будет такой униформы .

 

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Some defense contractor executive must have needed a new Gulf G650 so he persuaded DoD to make up another contract for uniforms that look almost identical.  Seriously... in the field covered with mud and crap, is there really going to be a difference in the above's camo capabilities??

Edited by Erwin
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6 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Some defense contractor executive must have needed a new Gulf G650 so he persuaded DoD to make up another contract for uniforms that look almost identical.  Seriously... in the field covered with mud and crap, is there really going to be a difference in the above's camo capabilities??

Yes. 

Scorpion was chosen over multicam because it performs better in a combat environment for longer. Camo fades over time, depending on how many times you wash it, sunlight exposure and dirt/grime and such. 

Multicam wore out after only a few months of use, whereas scorpion is designed to last longer. It even starts out an overall darker shade than multicam to help it resist fading as fast. 

 

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Mmmm...  It raises another point...  So, Scorpion starts off as darker than desired in order to fade over time to desired camo effectiveness as a money-saving project???   That's another bean-counter decision there.   (Note to self to write Trump to stop these ridiculous procurements.)

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56 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Mmmm...  It raises another point...  So, Scorpion starts off as darker than desired in order to fade over time to desired camo effectiveness as a money-saving project???   That's another bean-counter decision there.   (Note to self to write Trump to stop these ridiculous procurements.)

No. 

Scorpion starts off darker because it makes the camo more effective, AND it prolongs its lifespan. 

I'll also point out that most soldiers only get issued one set of camo. All other sets they have to purchase by themselves out of pocket. Many of the soldiers who had the digital UCP had to purchase the new uniforms themselves, depending on the demands of their units. New soldiers get issued the camo at basic training, and soldiers who are being sent on a deployment are also issued the new camo. Most other cases require the individual to purchase the new camo themselves. 

This is hardly some bloated DoD money grab. If anything it's the solution to a problem caused by the old UCP digital camo that was adopted over a decade ago. 

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That's terrible, almost unbelievable  that you have to purchase your own uniforms.  As a former contractor, I know how much bloat there is and most goes into pockets of highly paid contractors.  <sigh>   It's a sign of our times that so much is wasted into the undeserving already wealthy pockets while there seems to be no end to the exploitation of everyone else.  Akin to expanding empires lose the their young officers, an empire in decline loses its non-coms.

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23 minutes ago, Erwin said:

That's terrible, almost unbelievable  that you have to purchase your own uniforms.  As a former contractor, I know how much bloat there is and most goes into pockets of highly paid contractors.  <sigh>   It's a sign of our times that so much is wasted into the undeserving already wealthy pockets while there seems to be no end to the exploitation of everyone else.  Akin to expanding empires lose the their young officers, an empire in decline loses its non-coms.

I don't disagree. Did you know that you have to pay for the haircut you get when you get to basic training? Also all the other hygienic things such as deodorant and the like. When you first get to basic you get a payment in advance in order to pay for all that crap. There's lots of things you have to personally pay for. Officers have to pay for their class A uniforms and all the furnishings that go with it when they first commission. It usually costs around $1500 last I heard. 

Some of it I understand (for example a unit specific thing like a Stetson instead of a beret if in a cavalry unit) but a lot of it seems rather absurd. Is the way it is though. It is an extension of government after all, where waste is the norm and there is no such thing as "enough money." 

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

That's terrible, almost unbelievable  that you have to purchase your own uniforms.  As a former contractor, I know how much bloat there is and most goes into pockets of highly paid contractors.  <sigh>   It's a sign of our times that so much is wasted into the undeserving already wealthy pockets while there seems to be no end to the exploitation of everyone else.  Akin to expanding empires lose the their young officers, an empire in decline loses its non-coms.

It's not quite that straight forward.  I as an officer had/have it "worst" in that I was issued nothing from my commissioning source, and had to buy all my dress uniforms doubly so because I was at that awesome point in which I had to have the greens to commission in, but less than a year later I was in blues to graduate armor officer course (I cheaped out and went with the low end blues, which ironically enough are the only ones I can still wear).  

Basically you wind up buying however many sets of fatigues you think you need, plus boots.  I tended to go for three "nice" sets for days I knew I was going to be in the office, two pairs of boots, with my "field" uniforms being the "nice" sets that had been around the block too many times.  Same deal with boots.  Dress uniforms are variable, as an officer in some units you wind up with a wardrobe, but I basically rocked my greens unless ordered to wear blues, and then just the blues once the greens were retired.

Then toss in PT uniforms (5+set cold weathers) and you're pretty much set.  

Everything else, fire resistant fatigues for going to Iraq (plus weirdness like "combat shirts"), cold weather gear for both of my cold weather stations, tanker specialty gear (coveralls, nomex hoods, gloves), fire resistant cold weather gear (which is crazy expensive!), was issued to me in some way or the other (some of it I got to keep like the fire resistant fatigues, some of it the Army reclaims when you leave active duty).  If you're enlisted you get a clothing allowance yearly (something like 300-400 bucks I think) for the expressed purpose of buying whatever uniform bits you've worn out (officers get some sort of allowance only when we commission, but it's been almost ten years so I don't recall much detail there).   

Anyway.  New uniforms are pretty much universal on active duty.  Guard side of the house is a little more uneven, like I know a few people who are waiting for their next promotion to upgrade, are short timers before retirement, or just have a mountain of ACUs left over they want to wear out first.  

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I know that when I was in from 2003-2007, I didn't have to pay anything to go from BDUs to DCUs, as I received a one-time uniform stipend of a couple hundred bucks. Purchased two sets of uniforms, as I recall and pocketed the rest. :) And that was with me being in garrison and not scheduled to be deployed anywhere.

Come to think of it, I think the only "essential" uniform item I purchased during my time on active duty was a pair of black jungle boots, but that was just so I could get out of those awful leather boots they issued me in basic.

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13 hours ago, Erwin said:

That's terrible, almost unbelievable  that you have to purchase your own uniforms.  As a former contractor, I know how much bloat there is and most goes into pockets of highly paid contractors.  <sigh>   It's a sign of our times that so much is wasted into the undeserving already wealthy pockets while there seems to be no end to the exploitation of everyone else.  Akin to expanding empires lose the their young officers, an empire in decline loses its non-coms.

It's not that bad. Enlisted soldiers, including NCOs are given an annual clothing allowance to help pay for the new uniforms. New soldiers are issued four sets of the newest uniform, and all soldiers are expected to maintain four sets out of that annual clothing allowance. The US Army is a professional organization, is it really any different than a civilian mechanic being expected to buy his own tools, or an executive buying his own business suits?

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"The US Army is a professional organization, is it really any different than a civilian mechanic being expected to buy his own tools, or an executive buying his own business suits? 

I suspect mechanics and execs are paid a lot more... and when was the last time an exec had to put his life on the line for their country?  Wall street exec...  Grrr...

But, so long as you guys are happy, no reason for me to get riled up...

Edited by Erwin
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43 minutes ago, Erwin said:

"The US Army is a professional organization, is it really any different than a civilian mechanic being expected to buy his own tools, or an executive buying his own business suits? 

I suspect mechanics and execs are paid a lot more... and when was the last time an exec had to put his life on the line for their country?  Wall street exec...  Grrr...

But, so long as you guys are happy, no reason for me to get riled up...

Mechanics,don't get free housing, food, and medical care, and a lot of business execs are former military themselves.

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Forgot to mention the uniform allowance enlisted soldiers get, my bad. It's also worth pointing out that you can get a housing allowance if you're living off base (BAH) and the military compensates you for lots of other expenses, such as necessary travel or lodging during PCS. I wasn't trying to be critical of the current policies, just pointing out that the new uniforms were developed based on combat experience in Afghanistan and other theatres, not just as away for some lucky defense contractor to make extra cash. 

As far as the uniform itself, it's grown on me but I'm still not a big fan. It feels like a knock off of BDUs in a way, almost like a European equivalent. Not that something being European is a bad thing, it just doesn't feel quite right. That said and my personal feelings aside, it is a necessary replacement, and it's more than capable. 

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