I gotcha your Update RIGHT HERE!!! Wed. on CMHQ!!!

[Guest Madmatt]

Thats right! You want updates? Well come and get um!

Up tonight:

New Arnhem picture...

New "Did You Know"...

New "Quick Tactic"...

Turn 2 and movies of ongoing Last Defense AAR...

Plus my favorite 1000 Punk Rock bands

Edmund Morris...The Man the Legend!

PLUS the Bonus Feature! My 101 ways to post off topic threads and still have everyone love ya!

MADMATT mad, mean, and just a plain old rotten mutha!

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

combathq.thegamers.net

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 12-29-99).]

[Craig]

Well, I was impressed with the site when you were happy, and you seem to do even better when you're mean, so I think we should maybe try cutting your rations back and see what new goodies we get when you're hungry hehe.

Craig (from where the mosquitoes are so big they can stand flat-foot and rape a turkey)

ps. I hope you were just a little more nasty when you were a bouncer

[Guest Madmatt]

Well I don't want to get off on a tangent here BUT!!!!

Nasty, nah...Wasn't my stlye at all. I have always said that good bouncer can spot a fight 10-15 minutes before it ever starts, there are plenty of warning signs.

Most fights begin on the dance floor and goto any decent sized club and watch where the Bouncers are centering their attention. If they are good they are scanning the dance floor. You look for movement that seems out of place (hard to describe, but you know it when you see it) and look for the crowds attention to suddenly focus on one area. Its kinda neat to watch as all these hundreds of heads suddenly turn in one direction, thats the trouble spot but by then the fight has already begun.

In order to see a fight before it begins you get real good at watching body language (hehehe yeah that type too, Bouncers DO have groupies! ) you look for extra contact between guys, listen (very hard in a loud club) for yelling, you focus on the tone not the words (besides it always the same lines: Mutha fu$*&^ this and coc$*&*^ that ) you can watch as guys get their courage up, then back down and they talk to their friends to build their courage back up then they get this glaze over ther eyes and you just know....Its go time. I was usually parting the waves (bouncer slang for moving through the crowd) once I saw that look come over their face. A burst of speed and if i was lucky I could cut between the two would be combatants before it got out of hand. This is where the bouncers most lethal weapon came to play. His voice.

The secret was to position yourself RIGHT in between the two parties that wanted to scrap. You make a snap decission on which guy is the most dangerous, the one who looks like he is going to make the first move. You get right in his face and start yelling. You tell him to back down, you tell him to cool off, you tell him it aint worth it, you tell hm to just walk away, but what you DONT DO, is look him in the eye. You make eye contact and you form a conneciton with the guy. Thats not what its about. I dont want them to tell me why they want to fight, why they are right, they are wrong and I was right. It has to be that cut and dry otherwise you will get hurt...Bad. I used to look past their shoulders and use my periperhal vision to spot a weapon coming up or a fist cocked back. By not looking directly at the guy yet talking right to him I exuded an image of indefference and stregth. What I mean is that, to them (the people wanting to fight) I was completely non-personal yet incredibly authoratative. Think about it. Wouldn't you find it unsettling if someone got in your face and COMMANDED you to do something but also acted like they were paying you no direct attention. Its a potent weapon and used wisely by a good bouncer it could save his ass when things looked bad (i.e. badly outnumbered). Some would say that direct eye contact is more effective and maybe so but whenI focus my direct attention in an enviroment as hostile as what I put myself in every night, the last thing I want to do is lose situational awareness. I need to see what the guy behind me is going to do, what the other guys buddy is doing with his hand in his jacket, i have to notice how that little guy is holding his Bud Lite bottle and at the same time my mind is racing with all my reactions to what may happen. Can I take this guy down with direct force, how weak does his wrist look (most good submission moves start at the wrist) how many friends does he have, where are the other bouncers located and do they know whats going on, how many cops are just outside the front door, how many of these guys can I hold off before help arrives, does he look like he will fight or grapple. MYTH DESPOILER: Fights are rarely done with fists! Most often its one punch then grapple grapple grapple, maybe an elbow and knee or two for good measure. Unless you are VERY GOOD, you don't ever throw a kick in a bar fight! Not unless you want your leg broke in half! Submission moves and basic grappling will do you allot better in a bar fight than any sort of fabcy kick based martial art. Bars are just to crowded and confined for that.

So was I nasty? Well I was too damn busy to be nasty. The key is never make it personal. I was just doing a job and if you could make the idiot you were escorting out the door understand that then the chance he would be waiting outside at 3am with a pistol and a bad attitude was just that much smaller. But if someone resisted, throw a punch at me, hit a friend or another staff member, or said one of about 3 phrases that could set me off then that idiot was going to leave the bar horizontal with his head being used as a battering ram through our iron reinforced front door (made a real cool 'crunk' when ya did it to). In the hundreds of fights I was in over the span of more than 5 years, I lost my cool only a few times. It wasn't pretty...If my boss hadn't of told me what I did one time I literally would not have remembered what I had happened. Lets just say its amazing how FAR it is possible to throw somebody...

You know some people may actually read this and go "Jesus Matt, you aint right", or think I am bragging or god knows what else. But let me say this, Yes I have an attitude and as one idiot said a difficult personality, but when you see guys smash their girlfriends faces into concrete dance floors, or some loser ram his head into a steel pilar cause they are so jacked up on smack that they cant feel the pain, or watch as the blood gushes out of a jagged bottle opened forehead then you tend to get a slight attitude...Was I nasty?..Only as much as I had to be to get the job done and come home everynight...Is this off-topic? Damn straight it is, but this is a Community and one which I care deeply for. You think I would spend every waking moment of the last month and a half doing this cause I didn't care? Madmatt is who I am...good and bad together...And I just wanted to let you all know where I am coming from...

Ummm kinda got off track there...Perhaps I still have some unresolved issues?!?

Oh well, enough of me yapping! Lets play some Combat Mission!

Madmatt out and....I don't know what else..

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

combathq.thegamers.net

[Guest Capt_Manieri]

One time I got in a fight in school because this guy (who was bigger than me) tried to mess up my hair. Like Madmatt said, fighting is rarely done with fists. This guy tried to grapple me but I saw red and started punching like mad. I kicked ass.

I got a day of in-school suspension for that. But, hey......I don't need pay-per-view......I go to public school.

[Thomas Davie]

Not bad Captn; I got kicked out of school at the age of 13 for throwing eggs at the school president.

Tom

[Guest Capt_Manieri]

Actually, know what? I almost got 5 days suspension for running my gambling stuff at school. Taking bets for school sporting events and card playing...ect. For being a bookee, I take a lot of heat from the school administration!!! But I don't care.....it's actually pretty profitable!

[Rex]

Hey Madmatt,

Loved the story! If we ever play CM by email, remind me to let you win!

I've seen a bar fight or two in my day, some were pretty nasty. How anyone could deal with that on a daily basis is beyond me.

Rex

[Guest Madmatt]

Well just think what would happen at bars or clubs if bouncers weren't there!

Madmatt...

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

combathq.thegamers.net

[Craig]

Umm, just in case I happen to say one of the three phrases sometime, I really live in, uhh, mmm, err, ahh, Toronto. Yea, that's it, I now live in Toronto!!

Craig

ps. Great story. The only bouncers I have ever seen around here are just bullies with matching T-Shirts. Of course the biggest city here (150,000) would be classed as a small town in the U.S. Then again, we only have about a million in the whole province.

[Guest Madmatt]

Craig,

Well if just words could set me off then I would have been in twice as many fights! the 3 phrases I mentioned were not stand alone type events. They had to be coupled with a distinct action. For example if I am walking a guy out I used to try my best to let him know that it wasn't personal (My first manager had a rule about NEVER laying a hand on someone until they made the first move) but if the guy started to resist or not head for the door or start saying how I couldn't make him leave and then utter one of those phrases....Ummm bad move on his part.

About bad bouncers...Yeah sadly there are those guys too and I hated to work with them. These are the guys gunning for a fight and sometimes they seem all to common. Unforunately they represent what most peoples 'perception' of bouncers are. But for every 3 of these guys there are one or two who, like I hope I did, treated it as a noble profession that was neccesary and essential. Who tried to excel in the understanding of human nature and threat avoidance. A good bouncer never starts fights and only uses enough force to resolve the issue. To me that issue was getting the troublemakers out the door by the most effecient way possible. Once they were out the door the issue was over, for me. The detail police out front could tie up the loose ends (sometimes)and there are dozens of stories about those guys too! One of the club's golden rules was that the fight stops at the door. You chase some moron out that front door and make it personal, then you were fighting your own battles.

I pursued a guy outside one time. He was making trouble in the girls bathroom (man in girls bathroom: IMMEDIATE EVICTION)and was asked to leave. He did so willingly but his buddy decided he didn't want to leave just yet and resisted. Well a little pushing toward the door and they were out of the club but just as the door was shutting behind me a saw a slash of light. This idiot had flicked his lite cigarette at me from behind. It missed my head and he threw out some insult at me as the big front door came closed. Just another drunk punk and the issue was over, so I thought. As the Doorman (bouncer who checks ID's) and I were standing up front talking about this incident the doors burst open and the two heroes came charging in knocking over a few girls in line. They both swing wildy and the one in front of me grazes my chin as I arched back out of the way. In the corner of my eye I could see that the Doorman had a good handle on his man. With a volley of short jabs and curses my guy starts to try and beat me down. I got him into a decent headlock but he manged to get his fingers into my eye socket and was trying rip out my eyeballs. Well as you can imagine I wasnt to happy with this prospect and made my displeasure felt...into his face... repeatedly. He started to go limp a little and I knew that I had to act while he was off balance, so I accelerated towards the door with this idiots head craddled in my arms, his legs and body trailing behind (its amazing how much weight a thick neck can support). I aimed the top of his head for the metal crashbar on the door and just kept on moving. With a THUNK his head impacted and the front door flew open. Now usually this is where I would let go and this poor slob would go flying out of the club with the combined momentum and land on the sidewalk beyond, but not this time! No no, you dont poke my eyes and get away with it. So i kept on moving forward. The sidewalk in front of this club (which was located in a small strip mall) were about 15 feet in width and on the curbside were large supporting square brick/concrete pillars. One of these pillars was directly in front of the front door and that was my target. I pulled this guy up by his neck to he was almost completely upright then I used my weight to push him forward. He was going to see what I had in mind...With a shout of 'EAT THIS' I headed us both into the pillar as fast as I could. My fog of rage started to clear after we hit and I realized that I had gone a little too far. To be honest we didnt hit the wall all that hard and he was still trying to fight back and telling me I had lost the fight (strange I wasnt the one in a headlock!!). All his yelling and cursing suddenly wakened someting in me and I began to just laugh out loud. I couldn't believe what was happening. My strength poured out of me and I let go and he fell to the ground. I could make out the shouts of my manager and other bouncers yelling to get back into the club and a crowd started to form around me. I looked down at the pathetic fool on the ground and I had to admit he was in pretty good shape for what he just been through (literally ). He was still cussing and yelling and I knew that the cops would be over in a few minutes to see what was going on. I looked around and caught site of my girlfriend who must have come out to see if I was ok. I looked down at this man who 60 seconds before was trying to blind me and the rage, for just a second built up one last time. I dropped a steel toed boot into his groin and walked back into the club and then into the back room and sat on the floor. Events that occured shortly after this one led me to decide to retire after that night. That was my last fight as a bouncer and my last night working as one. That guy was later apprehended by the police for carrying a concealed weapon but for some bizarre reason was let go. He came back later that night and jumped another of the bouncers as he was taking out the trash. This bouncer again thumped this guy and held him in a choke hold until the cops again showed up and again did nothing usefull (by the way, I am not anti-police at all, this was one sad event in a long history of close co-operation between the staff and local police force) . The absurdity of the nights events weighed heavily on me that night at home and it was then I decided I had had enough..The time had come and I retired from bouncing...and I came here!

I have always said that nothing, I mean NOTHING is ever made better from being in a bar fight. People got hurt, blood was sometimes spilled and at the end of the night there was a mess to clean up. After a fight, for me, was a brief cool down period. I never got the shakes as such but I felt very odd. I kept running the events through my head to see if I had done something different if the whole event could have been averted. Buddies of mine would Hoop and Holler and laugh and boast at how they had 'Kicked Some Ass!' but I always felt ill at ease after a nasty encounter. Sadly sometimes there was only a few minutes before the next issue got instigated. Bar fights are much like a cancer. You want it gone you need to cut out ALL of it. Both sides have to go, no matter who started it or the fairness of it. You leave a small part back in the crowd behind you then I guarantee that guy is going to be like a loaded weapon just spoiling to finish what was started (with anyone he can find usually ).

The oddest thing I ever saw (and I saw it time and time again) were the girlfriend/boyfriend fights. I would see guys beating the crap outa their women and I got this surge of energy, like in all the neon and shadows of the bar I was this one glimmer of GOOD. It was black and white in front of me, some loser is pounding his old lady and I KNEW I was right in stopping him. So I would wade in, throw a quick move on him from behind (there are many very effective neck locks that can be applied to make someone ummm Stop...doing anything...including breathing if need be! ) and I would feel like in a world of dirt I was clean, as I had done my job and saved this lady. And do you know what would happen 100% of the time? I became the bad guy! The woman, blood still streaming down her face, would curse and spit and claw at me to let her man go! She would shreik like some kind of banshee at me! I never understood that...Still don't...The girlfriends who didn't immediately try and attack me were usually seen out in front of the club holding a wet towel to their boyfriends head or walking out with the ejected guy who 5 minutes earlier was feeding her a knuckle pie! To this day it still upsets me to think about that...

Man, there I go rattling on...Perhaps I should write my experiences down...I don't know if there is any wisdom in there to find, but it does feel good to talk about it some...

Madmatt out...

p.s. Odd thing is, sometimes I miss it...sometimes

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

combathq.thegamers.net

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 12-30-99).]

[Rick]

One thing I never understood is guys saying when they would go out that if they didn't get laid at least they would get into a fight. I most definitely understand the urge for the former, but why would anyone want to get into a fight? I have a rule that if anyone touches me in violence, I will do my best to make sure he never does that again. However, having said that, I do my best to stay out of fights and have only been in two in my life, both stopped by school officials before much happened.

Madmatt,

I think bouncers, if they do it right, are serving a noble function. It is very sad that it's necessary though. There shouldn't be any reason for anyone to be doing the job.

I knew one guy that worked as a bouncer at concerts. He was around 6' 8" and 320lb, he was an amateur body-builder so thats 320 of muscle not fat. I saw several fights begin to erupt and all he had to do was yell at them and give them the eye and it all stopped. He was an incredibly nice guy when away from that scene though.

[Guest Madmatt]

Rick,

Yup I have heard people say the same thing. Hell, some people go out JUST to get into a fight never even consdering the other option When those people come into a club its the Doormans responsibilty to turn them away right there and then, unfortunately that didn't always occur and the results were never pleasant. Get a little liquid courage and they were ready to fight the world.

I also concur that its a sad reflection on society that bouncers are needed as they are, but then who else would mop the floors and carry the trash out every night?!?

The one fun aspect of being a bouncer and one which I was unbeatable at was getting a crowd that wanted to stay and party out of the club when the lights came up! Its an art form and really was fun! Yelling at people to get moving, coming up with humerous stuff to yell like the famous 'You don't have to go home but you do have to go...' My call to fame was coming up with a trademark slogan each and every night...Here is one from the good ole days: "If you thought She was ugly on the Dance floor wait till you see her in the morning! Lets Go!"

It was kinda fun and could really end a bad night on a positive note...

Madmatt

[Rick]

I hadn't done enough of the club scene to realize comments like that were customary throughout. I heard them at the two places I did go to though, cracked me up.

[Guest Tom punkrawk]

Madmatt, my brother knows what happens when bouncers aren't at bars,...my brother is like 6'5 250lbs

A month or so ago, he was in the bar and some guy was bothering him all night,my brother told him to leave him alone and stuff.The guy presisted and grabbed my brother by the neck...this guy was a little guy,my brother punched him and the guy went down, then my brother went over and stomped on his head.

The guy had to get reconstructive surgery and my brother is looking at 5-11 1/2 years in prison.Too bad there couldn't have been a bouncer there.

I'm sure many of those guys woke up the next day thanking you for what you stopped.

[Guest Madmatt]

Tom,

OUCH! That sucks for your brother. One of the advantages to being a bouncer is the Local police and Court system would pretty much throw out any assault charges that were ever filed against the staff at the club. Maybe one these guys could produce a witness or two that said we went too far, but we could present a hundred witnesses that said otherwise...

I hope things work out for your Bro, that truely sucks...

Madmatt out..

p.s. I think the head stomp might have been a little over the top and thats what will probably be the deciding factor in your brothers case...

[Guest Tom punkrawk]

yeah the head stomping thing is bad...my brother has an anger problem,besides that he was drunk...

[John Hough]

This reminds me of the one good lesson I learned from karate class... My karate teacher was one of the guys who goes to bars to get in fights... tenth degree black belt, 5'8", about 150 pounds... And he'd go to bars to pick a fight with the largest guy he could find... And get beat down every time. Being about 110 pounds myself, I realized that avoiding fights would do me a lot more good than any amount of karate class...

-John