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Mine clearing


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So did I read this right we finally have a way to clear mines with the release of the new vehicle pack? If so has anyone used the mine clearing vehicles and how do they work.

Mines are the bane of my existence and I've been on a crusade since 2007 for BFC to release a vehicle or an engineer unit that can clear mines.

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Yep :)

And they are making a pretty good jobb, Looks horrible when the chains smash the ground like that and all the mines explodes :)

Well almost all mines.. sometimes there are mines left (because its not fool proof mine clearing procedure) so sometimes you end up detonating a mine but most of the time the flails are really clearingt the minefields out.

Totally worth 20bucks just for that :cool:

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Is the breach path visually discernible?

Mine markers (colored green for cleared) appear in every action spot where the flail has actually detonated mines. Action spots that have been flailed but no mines detonated are not marked in any way.

I suppose ideally there should be a clear path of scoured ground wherever the Crab flails. Lack thereof hasn't bothered me much.

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Now that we have a clear mines routine it may be a good idea to give engineers that capability, too? First mark the mines then clear them. Uses up a demo charge. Will take a bit longer than with the crab. :)

Was explosive clearance of mines by demo charge deliberately practised in WW2? I know the game already covers sympathetic detonations when demo charges bust barbed wire, but actually clearing mines was done by detectors; was there a field expedient "imperfect" (like the Crab) explosive method?

Can they clear barbed-wire; as they were able to do historically?

I'd guess "yes", since standard tanks are able to do so...

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Was explosive clearance of mines by demo charge deliberately practised in WW2? I know the game already covers sympathetic detonations when demo charges bust barbed wire, but actually clearing mines was done by detectors; was there a field expedient "imperfect" (like the Crab) explosive method?

Blasting a path through mines is one of the tasks Bangalore torpedoes are intended for, so if we assume that one of the things CM's abstracted one-size-fits-all demo charges could be is a Bangalore kit, then yes.

However, a Bangalore would only detonate or destroy mines in a narrow path about 1m wide by at most about 15m long (length depending on how many Bangalore segments are used). So the net effect was more like the current "Mark Mines" for engineers, creating a narrow path that infantry can pick their way along rather than a wide, completely cleared area.

Overall, I don't think a CLEAR MINES command for engineers on foot is justified as actually clearing an entire action spot of mines without the use of something like a flail tank would be a slow, tedious process. But you could argue for both a MARK MINES and a BLAST PATH function, the latter having the same effect as MARK MINES, but being faster to execute, at the cost of a demo charge.

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Blasting a path through mines is one of the tasks Bangalore torpedoes are intended for...

Cool. I didn't know that. :)

...so if we assume that one of the things CM's abstracted one-size-fits-all demo charges could be is a Bangalore kit...

I've always assumed it was, since they're used for clearing wire, which is the thing I did know Bangalore Torpedoes were meant for...

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The only time my crab has missed a mine is when its going over a mixed minefield and it misses an antipersonnel mine. But then again maybe I've just been lucky. At least its easily spotted, the mine marker doesn't switch to green.

If I understand the minefield signs correctly they are as follows:

Active non-marked minefields: Red sign

Marked minefield: Off-white sign.

A known neutralized minefield (all mines detonated): Green sign.

So it sounds like the SOP might be to run the crab through the desired breach lane until the minefield sign turned green or enemy activity caused you modify the plan. I guess the next question might be how often, on average, the crab would have to go through the breach lane to get the green sign? I would think just once or twice. (I don't have the new vehicle pack yet)

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Just the one pass clears a path. I used breach engineers to find where the mines were located and blow up wire barricade began before unleashing a Crab up a mined road which blows up everything leaving the green crossed minefield indicators. (in this JonS reworked scenario> http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods/5385/details )

Funnily enough the Crab pulled up at the end of doing its job right beside an unseen rattled enemy MG unit down to the last man who composed himself sufficiently to lob a couple of genades into the dissipating dust and promptly knocked it out.

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There is a way to find mines (not the hard way)? I had sitting engineers for minutes beside mines without finding anything.

Yes. As you found, though, it's not very reliable sometimes... Especially if you sit just 1AS too far away. I've had engineers spot mines just by being adjacent. Last mission of the Courage and Fortitude campaign, there are already-identified mine belts marked on the map, and I had engineers mark paths across in two places, without having to use "the hard way", IIRC. Took for-blinkin'-ever, though. Spotting the squares that needed careful attention did take minutes.

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There is a way to find mines (not the hard way)? I had sitting engineers for minutes beside mines without finding anything.

I have been experimenting on a RT scenario concept where red army engineers will have push through known minefield in front of heavily fortified german position while the soviet artillery covers their work. Very risky, very tedious and time consuming but in 15 to 20 minutes the veteran engingeers are able to clear paths trough 3-4 actions square deep minefields and additional barbed wire. Ofc some times they miss some of the mines but since the player knows the depth and position of the minefield he can just leave some engineers on top of that tile and they should detect it before the entire breach is marked. Ofc if the germans where to hit the engingeers with their arty while they are wokring .. the results might not be that timely :D

ohh and 300mm rockets clear big minefields quite nicely... ;) still wishing for the mine roller t-34's tbh.

edit. the key is to crawl (slow) the engineers into the tile of suspected mines. Detection is way better that way and they rarely explode if you crawl in to them.

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Just the one pass clears a path. I used breach engineers to find where the mines were located and blow up wire barricade began before unleashing a Crab up a mined road which blows up everything leaving the green crossed minefield indicators. (in this JonS reworked scenario> http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods/5385/details )

Thanks Wicky. I think I will give this scenario a try after I get the vehicle pack.

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edit. the key is to crawl (slow) the engineers into the tile of suspected mines. Detection is way better that way and they rarely explode if you crawl in to them.

I find that using "SLOW" detonates more mines than using "MOVE". But so far it's just anecdotal evidence, haven't done any proper testing (I'm using version 2.12).

Splitting an engineer squad and having each team walk through the suspected minefield, with a waypoint in every square, seems to work best for me. In one mission, I managed to detect and mark around 8 mined squares without setting off any mines. I was happy, I hate mines :)

Can't remember ever detecting mines by letting the squad sit in the adjacent square though. I tried a couple of times at known mine locations, but no luck.

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I find that using "SLOW" detonates more mines than using "MOVE". But so far it's just anecdotal evidence, haven't done any proper testing (I'm using version 2.12).

...

Must be anecdotal - I've had the opposite experience, but I only MOVE through marked minefields.

But I've successfully SLOWed guys into known mine AS's to buddy-aid casualties from the mines ( always visualising the 'Kelly's Heroes' bayonet mine-clearing crawl ... )

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Must be anecdotal - I've had the opposite experience, but I only MOVE through marked minefields.

But I've successfully SLOWed guys into known mine AS's to buddy-aid casualties from the mines ( always visualising the 'Kelly's Heroes' bayonet mine-clearing crawl ... )

Yep, anecdotal as clearly stated :)

When I tried to do the bayonet minefield crawl, I immediately lost two engineers, so I rage-quit and reloaded, going in with MOVE this time. But my success with that approach might just be "luck of the draw". So don't try this at home.

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I have tested.

I don't have the exact percentages in front of me, but infantry on SLOW are substantially less likely to detonate mines than on other move modes. HUNT and MOVE are about the same (but on HUNT the team will immediately stop if a mine detonates, while on MOVE they will start running for the next waypoint, so HUNT reduces the chance of a soldier stepping on a second mine before the team completely clears the mined action spot).

QUICK and FAST are the most likely to set off mines.

Size of team also matters; a 2-man team is much more likely to get across a minefield safely than a 7-man team. Note this can bite you in the ass if you're using 2-man scout team to look for danger ahead of a larger body; the 2-man scout team actually has a pretty good chance of making it across mined action spots without setting off a mine, but larger follow-on teams probably won't be so lucky.

Generally, if you must try to cross a known but unmarked mine square, you want to SLOW or HUNT. If crossing a marked mine square, SLOW is near 100% safe, HUNT and MOVE are very safe (but there is still some small chance of setting off a mine), and QUICK and FAST are more risky. IME, a unit will usually get across a marked mine square safely on QUICK, but it's definitely not something to count on.

CM does actually track the total # of mines in an action spot as well. I forget exactly, but IIRC the total # of mines in an AP mine square is about 20. So if there's a square that has already had quite a few mines set off, the chances of crossing safely go up substantially.

Because of this, it's actually possible to use armored vehicles to set off AP mines and make a safer crossing for infantry. This comes at the cost of track damage, but a tank can usually withstand 2-3 AP mine detonations before the track damage becomes really serious. Distributing the track damage across multiple vehicles makes it more palatable. Run ~3 tanks across a single AP mine action spot, and that square will be fairly (but not completely) safe for infantry, especially if they SLOW across.

Of course, if it turns out to be a mixed minefield rather than an AP-only minefield, your tank will probably be immobilized, at the least.

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I have tested.

I don't have the exact percentages in front of me, but infantry on SLOW are substantially less likely to detonate mines than on other move modes. HUNT and MOVE are about the same (but on HUNT the team will immediately stop if a mine detonates, while on MOVE they will start running for the next waypoint, so HUNT reduces the chance of a soldier stepping on a second mine before the team completely clears the mined action spot).

QUICK and FAST are the most likely to set off mines.

Thanks for testing. Which version are you using?

Size of team also matters; a 2-man team is much more likely to get across a minefield safely than a 7-man team. Note this can bite you in the ass if you're using 2-man scout team to look for danger ahead of a larger body; the 2-man scout team actually has a pretty good chance of making it across mined action spots without setting off a mine, but larger follow-on teams probably won't be so lucky.

This is good advice, I wish I had read it before a mission I had recently :)

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