Calgar Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hello community, After I cane back from a long business trip, I yearned for some CM and downloaded 3.0. The first minutes of playing and asking a friend to play a PBEM Scenario brought up an old question: How not to bunch up? I would love to see the option to choose formations, but since we are still far away from that (at least as far as I know) I wanted to ask you for advice. I rather would not see a Coy again, that is crossing open ground in a column. I know that many of you like to split teams. I always thought that is a little gamey. If the Squad Leader fails to lead his men properly, he deserved it ;-) On the other hand, and that was always my major concearn, doesen't splitting up also mean they loose the Leader Bonus of their SL, even if they stay relativeley close together? While we're on the subject: Does any of you play Germans and apply proper "Stoßtrupp" doctrine? Splitting all the Squads and rearranging them is probably the only way of doing that... Regards, A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Split your squads. This is not gamey.. squads should have the opportunity to spread out (split) or compress as the situation and terrain dictate. I split as much as possible... if you keep the two teams within visual distance of each other then any command penalties will be minimal. Most western armies at this time used fire & movement tactics or something similar, and squads would normally break into support and maneuver teams as required. Even the Russian squads at this time could break down into teams and hold the MG element back at a distance to support the maneuver elements (rifles). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgar Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks for your advise Bil, I am not saying that spreading out in iself is gamey, just that a Squad should be able to move in proper formation and spreading, even without spliting into teams. But i will probably do that then... what about the leader bonus though? splited teams no longer benefit from their former SL, correct? regards, A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 what about the leader bonus though? splited teams no longer benefit from their former SL, correct? Maybe you missed this part from my initial post: ...if you keep the two teams within visual distance of each other then any command penalties will be minimal. It'll be fine as long as you keep them close enough that the split teams can see the team that contains the squad leader. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It's also often OK and perfectly realistic to let the teams get wider apart than visual C2 distance if you use some common sense in how you do it. For example, in your typical small-unit infantry assault, any enemy on or near the objective are much likely to target your closing maneuver team(s) rather than overwatch/suppressive fire units that are further away, so the fire suppression team(s) are usually OK without leadership. As such, you can leave the "heavy" half of the squad with the SAW back in cover providing suppressive fire, while the Squad Leader leads the rest of the squad in to flank and finish. I actually frequently extend this to the platoon-level assault -- for example, with a plain-vanilla German Rifle Platoon, I might split all of the squads and leave the 3 x heavy teams with MG42s back in an overwatch/suppressive fire position, while the "light" teams with the Squad Leaders (and SMGs) close to finish. It depends a lot on terrain, but at the decision moment when the close assault is going in, the separation between my heavy supporting fire teams and my assault teams might be as much as 200m. Not that this is an original idea on my part; this platoon fire and maneuver tactic is straight out of period tactical manuals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgar Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks guys! And apologieze to Bil, that really slipped me, must be the Jet lag still... Well then, that's settled! I was just hoping to grab a few tipps before I play against the german player in the scenario "bloody dawn". A few open fields there to cross and a few forrest Obj too.... guess in the end I was just hoping to get around micro managing and reattaching many small teams ;-) Thanks again! A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Some good advice here. Something else that helps is setting more way points - that is shorter movement legs. Yes, I know it can be slower but when the movement orders are long the teams naturally fall in lines behind each other. If you have shorter orders with pauses at some of them (your guys need some rest anyway) they will start out spread around and gradually start to from lines and then stop at a way point and spread out a bit again. Repeat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Game currently does bunch up your soldiers in a straight line if you order them to cross a gap in the bocage for example but only if your waypoint is far from the gap being crossed. Set a waypoint just beyond the gap and then set another waypoint in the direction you want to go. That way "the straight" line annoyance will go away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It's also worth remembering that the "Four F's" stands for "Find, Fix, Flank, and Finish." So whenever possible you want to avoid moving directly towards a dangerous enemy. Once you've Found and Fixed, if possible your closing force should move at a bias to the enemy, opening up the angle and forcing him to engage in two different directions. In this situation, the closing unit actually should move in "Line Ahead" formation, since the threat direction is from the side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 what about the leader bonus though? Might not be that much of a problem. From my own experience in the game, the only time the leader bonus is really critical is if the troops are green or worse. If they are veteran or better, then that usually trumps any lack of leader bonus and they can do okay on their own. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 If it´s just for movement purposes and with no early attempt to settle down within any action spot, just make sure the ptroopers do Not reach their destination AS And deploy! That means, before reaching the destination AS, either pause or cancel any movement orders midway, or alternatively shift the last waypoint further along the intended movement axis and again, make sure the destination AS won´t be reached during the current action phase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgar Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hey all, the help is very much appreciated and I am trying to implement the suggestions. Me and my opponend decided in the meantime to go for another scenario (CW Loamshire). but there are still enough gaps for me to cross ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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