Jump to content

Paying for 3.0?


Recommended Posts

I would much rather pay $10 to get the new features added to the game I have, in a theater that I am interested in; than to have to pay $50 for a new game to have those features in a theater I may not be interested in as much.

Being on a fixed income, I don't have the luxury of buying all the games as they come out, either. For the foreseeable future, it is all I can do to keep up with the modules for this one. It certainly helps to know when I do buy a module that it is not going to be made obsolete in a few months when a new game comes out.

This is the only gaming company I am aware of that makes the new features available for older games and not require the purchase of the new one. I do not mind paying a small upgrade fee, especially when that money is going to keep the company in business, and result in more features being made available. This is a development cycle I am happy to stand behind.

It also has the benefit of continuing support. How many of us have old games tucked away somewhere that were abandoned by their developer long ago (or not long after release) because version 2/3/etc. came out? Certain companies are notorious for this, and I made a point of not buying any of their games. Frankly, they are also notorious for not supporting their current games, but I digress.

One simple fact remains, however. No one is forced to buy the upgrade. If they are happy with the feature set they have, the game will not refuse to load without the additional purchase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, thanks for the comments and the clear guidance on this question, very much appreciated to all who contributed. I will wait on the CMBN upgrade for now (first time I have ever not upgraded without delay) - the reason being that CMRT is the real deal for me, at least for a while - great game!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been off PC for a couple of months and come back to find that 3.0 for CM Battle for Normandy is out - :)!

However, would someone confirm for me that I have to pay $10 for this even if I have v2.12 and have religiously purchased every CM2 game there is? Or is there a way loyal customers like me can download this FOC?

The answer is "yes" and "no", respectively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has nothing to do with feeling entitled to everything I want but rather just some criticisms I have with the way this upgrade was handled.

About the scenarios: yes, yes, I know, and that's why I stated that at least some of the scenarios should be upgraded to take advantage of the 3.0 triggers. Think about it for a moment: someone new to the game (or who's coming back to the game after a hiatus) sees that 3.0 has added the ability for triggers. They load up a stock scenario and see that, lo and behold, those triggers are not in place. So, they ask here about what's going on, and the reply they would get would be along the lines of: "yes, that feature was added but no, it wasn't retrofitted to any of the stock missions, so you'll have to wait for the community to create missions that have triggers in them. Or, create a scenario yourself." That doesn't really look good.

Agreed, it would have been nice if, with the 3.0 upgrade, every stock scenario and campaign had been modified. (Insert snarky comment about every other thing which would be nice had been included in my life. ;) )

Let's think about the workload needed to include triggers in every stock scenario. Really. Every battle would have to be tested - again - and tweaked, etc.

Do you think the time/effort needed would keep the cost at $10 for the upgrade?

Now, think about those who DIDN'T upgrade: "I want to play "C3K's Demise" pbem." Okay, is that "C3K's Demise" v2.12 or v3.0?

Or, did you want all v3.0 battles to be backwards compatible with v2.12 game installs? Meaning, those triggers would be ignored and not cause a game crash. How about battle balance? If "C3K's Demise" has a triggered counterattack (of course), then how would it play without that trigger?

Now do you see the issues?

There is plenty of criticism about a $10 upgrade. (Warranted, or not; informed, or not.) In order to solve all the compatibility issues and recreate all the stock scenarios (or your "some", which is worse*), the price would be higher. Imagine a $50 upgrade. Ouch.

The "make it yourself" quote, admittedly looks bad. You have it in quotes, but not attributed: is it an actual quote by BFC? Regardless, it does reflect the true state of the matter. On the other side, the editor is one of the most powerful ones I've ever seen included in a game. It does take a little learning, but it puts all the tools to make anything desired in the hands of every player. No other downloads or tools are needed.

* Why "some" is worse than "all". Which ones would be upgraded, and why? How would you tell them apart? What would the criteria be? The outcry would be huge for not upgrading the favorite battles, as seen by the player. Etc.

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would much rather pay $10 to get the new features added to the game I have, in a theater that I am interested in; than to have to pay $50 for a new game to have those features in a theater I may not be interested in as much.

Being on a fixed income, I don't have the luxury of buying all the games as they come out, either. For the foreseeable future, it is all I can do to keep up with the modules for this one. It certainly helps to know when I do buy a module that it is not going to be made obsolete in a few months when a new game comes out.

This is the only gaming company I am aware of that makes the new features available for older games and not require the purchase of the new one. I do not mind paying a small upgrade fee, especially when that money is going to keep the company in business, and result in more features being made available. This is a development cycle I am happy to stand behind.

It also has the benefit of continuing support. How many of us have old games tucked away somewhere that were abandoned by their developer long ago (or not long after release) because version 2/3/etc. came out? Certain companies are notorious for this, and I made a point of not buying any of their games. Frankly, they are also notorious for not supporting their current games, but I digress.

One simple fact remains, however. No one is forced to buy the upgrade. If they are happy with the feature set they have, the game will not refuse to load without the additional purchase.

Well put!

Bobo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very good point in post #30, c3k.

Triggers are a huge leap forward and are going to enhance the SP experience greatly. However, the amount of work involved in successfully applying them to scenarios (especially in the beginning, as designers are in the learning stage) means that it will take awhile for scenarios actually using them to appear. And, like you said, expecting them to be added to stock scenarios as part of the $10 initial upgrade is unrealistic, due to the vast amount of work involved.

Triggers are one of those things that are easy to overlook when analyzing the value of the upgrade, but which are actually more than worth $10 in and of themselves. As of this weekend, I've started work on adding AI plans using triggers to my Under the Eyes of the White Manor scenario. Without them, I felt that offering a decent challenge from the AI was not worth the work, given the map. Now, I can at least take a shot at it.

It's great to be able to set up, say, a mortar to plaster the player's infantry, and then have the mortar team displace as soon as enemy armor shows up. Or, to have the ability to fall back to a new line of defense if the player's forces breach the current one.

Of course, it's not perfect. I've already got a wish list going in my head of features I'd like to see added to the Editor (more groups and being able to make specific, split teams a group would be great--along with different force mixes for SP vs MP play). But, it's a fantastic step up for scenario-making and I'm sure designers will be treating us to amazing SP scenarios in the months and years ahead.

As for what happens when my updated scenario is ready (will be a number of months)...well, the old version goes bye-bye and only the CMBN 2.2+ version will be available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember CM series is not just playing the game. A large proportion of the fun to be had from the franchise is in building too. Triggers are now in. A full scenario editor is also available. Go for it, dude! Playing in the scenario editor is FUN FUN FUN! Recreate your home town then stage an assault against the local high school. If you're not going crazy map making and constructing scenarios you're only utilizing 1/3rd of the product supplied.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember CM series is not just playing the game. A large proportion of the fun to be had from the franchise is in building too. Triggers are now in. A full scenario editor is also available. Go for it, dude! Playing in the scenario editor is FUN FUN FUN! Recreate your home town then stage an assault against the local high school. If you're not going crazy map making and constructing scenarios you're only utilizing 1/3rd of the product supplied.

Very true, MikeyD!

The Editor offers another whole hobby universe, in addition to the one you get playing the game. My map was an exact copy of a real place in France I found on Google Maps. The Editor is great fun to use!

In fact, most of my CM play involves custom QBs that I make taking existing maps and augmenting them in the Editor. I still have a ton of stock content I've yet to get to, as a result.

As I and so many have said before, if it's your bag, CM is the best value for money in the world of entertainment there is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "make it yourself" quote, admittedly looks bad. You have it in quotes, but not attributed: is it an actual quote by BFC? Regardless, it does reflect the true state of the matter. On the other side, the editor is one of the most powerful ones I've ever seen included in a game. It does take a little learning, but it puts all the tools to make anything desired in the hands of every player. No other downloads or tools are needed.

No, it's just a hypothetical scenario. Based on the sort of replies from members I've seen over the years here, though, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see a reply like that.

Otherwise, yes, I agree with you on how upgrading the stock missions to 3.0 would be problematic and make this more than a $10 upgrade. There's no easy solution to this, so far as I can see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I came back on the forum after a broadband update, and I am reminded of the first Crocodile Dundee film. Paul Hogan, playing the Oz outback man gets taken to US (cue all the modern technology gags including the bidet). He shows no interest in the TV 'cos he saw one once years ago. TV is switched on to reveal a repeat of I Love Lucy (or something).

"Yep. Told you I'd seen TV" (or some similar remark)

Please can we get off the $10 and value debate! Search is your friend, the topic has been talked to death, buried, reanimated, wandered around as a zombie, beheaded and burned already!

Rise of flight charge a few dollars per flyable aircraft! BFC haven't done that - get the demo for free, with 1 infantry type and 1 AFV per nation, and you have to pay $1.99 per tank type, anyone?

I nearly had a typo in that, it came out $109. Now, if BFC charged $109 for upgrading to 3.00, I think it might be worth a discussion. If you can afford a PC, and Internet and electricity to play/mod CM2, I think we can all pay $10! Oh, and if you can't, it's not compulsory...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please can we get off the $10 and value debate!

Why, does this topic bother you? If people can discuss this in a mature manner (which I think just about everyone has done), then there's no harm done.

That, and you can always just not click on threads like this if they bother you that much. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...