Sten Posted March 23, 1999 Share Posted March 23, 1999 Will there be a way to synchronise actions between different units? I wouldn't want my tanks just blundering ahead alone just because the infantry went to ground to avoid that gracing MG42.... Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 24, 1999 Share Posted March 24, 1999 No, you can't directly "link" one unit's actions to another. This would be historically dubious at best. Separation and bad coordination are all too common in war, especially WWII. Tanks, once buttoned up, generally couldn't hear or see the infantry that was supposed to be protecting them, ESPECIALLY if they were anywhere but right in front. So they largely had to assume that the infantry was still there. Sometimes this was the case, other times... Generally infantry was sent AHEAD of the armor in order to prevent ambushes and to allow the vehicles. Not by a HUGE distance all the time, but enough that the enemy infantry would be forced to engage the friendly infantry instead of the armor. This wasn't always possible to do, and that is where armor got into trouble. Cities were particullarly deadly for this reason. So yes, your carefully thought out plans can go wrong. But that is war However, CM's 60 second turns generally allow you to correct coordination problems along realistic lines. Say the infantry you spoke of got pinned. If the tank was driving RIGHT next to them, it should be doing so at infantry pace. So perhaps it only advances about 30 meters more before the turn ends, which is not unreasonable to expect from a historical standpoint. Next Orders Phase, change the tank's orders (halt, reverse, fire, evasive action, etc.) Make sense? Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 03-23-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted March 24, 1999 Author Share Posted March 24, 1999 Makes sense. Very much so, in fact. I guess my old grognardy, boardgamey self will have to adapt to the 'real' thing, eh? On a totally different topic, (I hope this is not in the FAQ, I haven't read it in a long time) will there be an option to have time limits on turns? To avoid ten minute waiting periods just because the other player is a micromanagement freak.... Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 24, 1999 Share Posted March 24, 1999 Absolutely we will have time limits. They will be adjustable, probably 4 or 5 different options. I can't stand the kind of player that goes "hmmmm... maybe if I move this guy one meter to the right.... no... maybe one meter to the... no... maybe..." I always find myself saying, "MOVE THE FRIGGIN THING OR DON'T, BUT END YOUR &$^^*#$ TURN ALREADY!! I'M DONE READING WAR AND PEACE AND THIS IS ONLY TURN TWO!!" And people wonder why I play wargames solo most of the time Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 25, 1999 Share Posted March 25, 1999 I'd like to change the topic back to what it was before (if I may )... coordination of troops. As I understand troops of different qualities (green, veterans etc.) as well as teams in/out of command have different "reaction times" to the player's orders. How will the player be able to move a mixed formation of veteran/green troops at the same pace to keep a formation? This applies mainly to the first few turns of a scenario when the troops had no enemy contact yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 25, 1999 Share Posted March 25, 1999 Oh, I suppose we can talk about coordination again Simple... give the Vets a "Pause" order. Each pause is equal to 15 secs on top of any C&C delays. So here are two real world examples: A Regular Rifle squad out of C&C gets a 20sec delay. An Elite HQ from another unit has a 5sec delay. If you slapped the Elite HQ with a pause both will get up and move at the same exact second. In theory... However, there is a second or two +/- randomness factored in just to make things a little more natural. Otherwise you would see an entire company get up at the same second on turn one! Trust me, it used to happen and it looked stupid! Like real war, you can get coordination CLOSE, but not exact. Sometimes a Pause will not time things exactly in sync, but you will be withing 7 seconds or so using Pauses. This is plenty close for the real world. Probably too close! Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 03-25-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted March 25, 1999 Author Share Posted March 25, 1999 You mean I _can't_ get two full divisions to snap simultaneously to attention like on a parade ground?!?! How then, can _anyone_ be expected to plan anything?? Not to mention _executing_ anything. That would mean that, that... that this war-business would include some modicum of risk and unpredictability!! I think I'll stay in this closet with my nice hexagons and little colored squares of cardboard. Much safer and more controllable. Sten (tongue firmly in cheek all the way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 25, 1999 Share Posted March 25, 1999 As funny as Sten's post is (and it certainly is!!) I have got to say that there are some people out there who think EXACTLY like this. They also tend to have mouths bigger than their brains :-( Their sense of warfare and historical reality comes from boardgames, not from historical study. This is like someone getting their knowledge about "fine cuisine" from sampling all the TV dinners Swanson puts out Both are food, of sorts, but what one has to do with the other beyond that is a mystery to me. Can't say that I am looking forward to "defending" Combat Mission's realism against this reactionary, irrational, and TOTALLY ignorant bunch. But as sure as the sun rises and sets each day (in the US at least, not in northern Sweeden <g>), I will have to do just that... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted March 25, 1999 Share Posted March 25, 1999 Trivia on large scale unit coordination.. I think the US attack on Achen was opened by having each man in a company positioned behind a RR embankment throw a grenade over at exactly 12 noon. Or something like that. Anyway, I demand that we have a "plan to throw grenade at exactly noon" command added. As you can see, without it, the game would be ahistorical. I haven't researched it in full yet, you might also need to add "plan to throw grenade at exactly sunup" and "plan to throw grenade at exactly teatime" commands too. Chris Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 26, 1999 Share Posted March 26, 1999 Chris, I must strongly disagree with your post. The sunup, sundown and noon ideas are all well and good but this system would be TOO CONSTRAINING on my military genius. (Which I am certain will become obvious as I blather on ). What about timing my attack for exactly 4:17:25 eh? Under your system this would be impossible. Now how realistic is that? Not realistic at all I am sure you will agree. Hence I think we should break the pre-planned grenade throwing sections into segments of no more than 5 seconds to allow exact control so I can carry out my wonderful and completely unrealistic plans. I want realism but I also want to know and be able to control everything immediately. This is like someone getting their knowledge about "fine cuisine" from sampling all the TV dinners Swanson puts out Both are food, of sorts, but what one has to do with the other beyond that is a mystery to me. Don't make fun of this Steve. My girlfriend's grandmother attempted to debate cuisine with me basing her critique of a restaurant I brought her to on the excellence of the TV dinners she ate every day for the last ten years. Thoughts of strangulation crossed my mind but then I wouldn't have been able to play CM so instead I am adding her maiden name to the American unit database (I'm not kidding either hehe ). Can't say that I am looking forward to "defending" Combat Mission's realism against this reactionary, irrational, and TOTALLY ignorant bunch. But as sure as the sun rises and sets each day (in the US at least, not in northern Sweeden ), I will have to do just that... I'm glad to see you are already learning how to use caveats to defend yourself from every possible interpretation. "As soon as the sun rises and sets each day" , Cue cries of.. Well obviously you haven't considered the situation on the dark side of the moon here hence your game MUST be totally unrealistic LOL .. Ah venting feels good after a hard day . Fionn (Tongue firmly in cheek ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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