Help with Strategy / Tactics

[HeinzFiction]

Ahoi,

i hope its no problem to post in this Thread. i dont find any FAQ for my little question. Maybe i miss something when reading manual, but is it possible to give an order to the troops not to fire when spotting an enemy? And is it possible to show every movement of own troops even when they are not selected?

[sburke]

A short target arc will prevent them firing "most" of the time. You can use alt-p to show all movement paths. It won't show other order types like targeting orders.

[postfux123]

One of my engineering sections set to blow the wire apparently found an anti-tank mine. I don't know exactly what happened but the wire and the engineering team were all gone/dead in one very surprising kaboom.

Mine also managed to blow theselves up, but what really frustrated me is that i didnt manage to clean the bridge (wanted to not get some pathing issues with mortars coming in). They even blew up the wall providing some cover against direct fire without any appaerent reason.

[Atago]

Mine also managed to blow theselves up, but what really frustrated me is that i didnt manage to clean the bridge (wanted to not get some pathing issues with mortars coming in). They even blew up the wall providing some cover against direct fire without any appaerent reason.

I have not previously had an engineering team blow themselves up. Do AT mines get set off by a demo charge in the game? I would expect in real life they would. If mines can be set off by detonations in game, I wonder if one could clear wire and mines by blasting the living %! out of that bridge with mortars or howitzers.

I'm still curious how the more skilled players (meaning about anyone but me) handle the situation of locating relatively distant ATG's. Infantry can't see them well unless they fire, and tend to be suppressed by ATG's supporting MG's and infantry. I 'could' wiggle a tank out in the open and hope it can get back to cover, but not knowing exactly where the ATG is - you don't know where cover is either. Assume start point of the tank.

[MikeyD]

The simplest piece of advice is to not do something you wouldn't do in real life. If you think crossing an open field in the teeth of machine gun fire is a bad idea in real life don't do it in the game. If you think hiding behind a building that's being peppered with rifle fire is a safer idea than hiding in the building then go for it.

[Atago]

The simplest piece of advice is to not do something you wouldn't do in real life. If you think crossing an open field in the teeth of machine gun fire is a bad idea in real life don't do it in the game. If you think hiding behind a building that's being peppered with rifle fire is a safer idea than hiding in the building then go for it.

I have learned that what you say is true (school of hard knocks). Given the requirements of the scenario I MUST get over that %^$# bridge. As such my pixel soldiers must brave machine gun and small arms fire as well as artillery. The trick I'm trying to discover is how to minimize my casualties while maximizing the enemies.

I think that in this case the We-Go may be working to my disadvantage. I'm going to try RT and see if that helps. I'm already cheating as I know how many ATG's the enemy has and have a good idea on what else. Since the AI is still kicking my butt fairly well though I can still use this one to learn with!

[womble]

I have not previously had an engineering team blow themselves up. Do AT mines get set off by a demo charge in the game? I would expect in real life they would. If mines can be set off by detonations in game, I wonder if one could clear wire and mines by blasting the living %! out of that bridge with mortars or howitzers.

Yes, mines can be set off by sympathetic explosion from the demo charge. This can cause casualties in your engineers. Of course you have to have something (in C&F's case, that's the wire) to use a demo charge on before you can take advantage of this.

I'm still curious how the more skilled players (meaning about anyone but me) handle the situation of locating relatively distant ATG's. Infantry can't see them well unless they fire, and tend to be suppressed by ATG's supporting MG's and infantry.

It's important to keep your "eyes" hidden. Slow movement orders from defilade into covered positions that can observe, with a short Cover Arc order to stop the observation unit from taking potshots which give away their presence. It's entirely possible for HQ and FO teams to sit for many minutes, quietly using their binos to find the enemy. ATG are much more difficult targets these days, though, and you may well have to dangle your armour where it can be shot at before your observers can locate the ATG. In C&F, the range is long enough that you've a good chance of a glacis hit on one of your M4s will do no real harm.

[A Canadian Cat]

It's entirely possible for HQ and FO teams to sit for many minutes, quietly using their binos to find the enemy.

All good advice - also don't for get that your FO team does *not* have to be observing for the entire call just the initial call order and then for the spotting rounds. I have done this many times in risky situations - crawl my FO team into a covered observation spot make the call then crawl out again to a safe place and wait for the spotting rounds then crawl back and spot. Pay attention to how long they took to get from safety to the OP so you can time them crawling back.

[Atago]

It's important to keep your "eyes" hidden. Slow movement orders from defilade into covered positions that can observe, with a short Cover Arc order to stop the observation unit from taking potshots which give away their presence. It's entirely possible for HQ and FO teams to sit for many minutes, quietly using their binos to find the enemy. ATG are much more difficult targets these days, though, and you may well have to dangle your armour where it can be shot at before your observers can locate the ATG. In C&F, the range is long enough that you've a good chance of a glacis hit on one of your M4s will do no real harm.

Thanks Womble. Part of my problem seems to be that I've switched to We-go and so can't immediately react when a tank takes fire. In RT I can usually spot the shot and immediately react rather than have the target tank just blindly keep on track.

Keeping the observers hidden or relatively hidden does help. I had not been using target arcs so my observers would take pot shots and so attract very unwanted attention.

I won another game yesterday - didn't cheat & cease fire to see where the enemy was then re-start. Glad I'm learning - having fun more, frustration less.

Split squads, scout teams (wish they had Binoculars). I'll go back to that %*#! campaign after I get more training.

[womble]

Thanks Womble. Part of my problem seems to be that I've switched to We-go and so can't immediately react when a tank takes fire. In RT I can usually spot the shot and immediately react rather than have the target tank just blindly keep on track.

In WeGo, I always feel guilty about sending assets out to get shot at. Often I'll mitigate this by giving them "pop up" orders. Only have them sit there long enough for the enemy to get the one shot after spotting them, then reverse/Fast the heck outta Dodge into defilade again. 15-20s max. If there's a useful area target, having the unit fire at that will mean they get spotted faster (as well as whatever terminal effect the fire has), so make the pause shorter.

Keeping the observers hidden or relatively hidden does help.

Getting told about that was one of the "lightbulb" moments I've had, getting my head around the controls available.

I had not been using target arcs so my observers would take pot shots and so attract very unwanted attention.

You might want to, as part of your setup SOP, select your entire force and give it all a "self defense only" circular Target Arc. I set mine to about 50m. As you're giving initial orders to units, either modify their TA or cancel it.

I'll go back to that %*#! campaign after I get more training.

Yeah, C&F is an unforgiving hands-on learning environment.

[AlexUK]

Thanks Womble. Part of my problem seems to be that I've switched to We-go and so can't immediately react when a tank takes fire. In RT I can usually spot the shot and immediately react rather than have the target tank just blindly keep on track.

Keeping the observers hidden or relatively hidden does help. I had not been using target arcs so my observers would take pot shots and so attract very unwanted attention.

I won another game yesterday - didn't cheat & cease fire to see where the enemy was then re-start. Glad I'm learning - having fun more, frustration less.

Split squads, scout teams (wish they had Binoculars). I'll go back to that %*#! campaign after I get more training.

Here are a few pointers if you want some help:

Firstly, I am a believer (perhaps wrongly) that some scenarios are designed to be won first time through as long as good tactics are used. Others are more a puzzle that can only be solved through repeated playthroughs, i.e. they are not designed to be won first time through. In my opinion, this Scenario in Courage and Fortitude falls well and truly into the latter. I would struggle to believe that many people could win this one first play through, so don't feel too hard on yourself. I had to play through several times before getting there. You will learn as much (if not more) from failing as you will succeeding. Don't be afraid to experiment.

What are your advantages in this battle? Have a think about your strengths vs the enemy's.

For me, one of your biggest strengths is time - the amount of time you have. Don't rush into this battle, there is no need to.

Another big advantage is that you can see pretty much all of the enemy's territory. There are very few hidden areas - his entire defensive scheme is laid out for you....

...but you may not be able to see all of this at the outset - consider time of day at the start, and how this will evolve over time....

....and could also be used to your advantage.

[Atago]

Here are a few pointers if you want some help:

Firstly, I am a believer (perhaps wrongly) that some scenarios are designed to be won first time through as long as good tactics are used. Others are more a puzzle that can only be solved through repeated playthroughs, i.e. they are not designed to be won first time through. In my opinion, this Scenario in Courage and Fortitude falls well and truly into the latter. I would struggle to believe that many people could win this one first play through, so don't feel too hard on yourself. I had to play through several times before getting there. You will learn as much (if not more) from failing as you will succeeding. Don't be afraid to experiment.

What are your advantages in this battle? Have a think about your strengths vs the enemy's.

For me, one of your biggest strengths is time - the amount of time you have. Don't rush into this battle, there is no need to.

Another big advantage is that you can see pretty much all of the enemy's territory. There are very few hidden areas - his entire defensive scheme is laid out for you....

...but you may not be able to see all of this at the outset - consider time of day at the start, and how this will evolve over time....

....and could also be used to your advantage.

I really like battles where I can get through without a re-do. I do cheat when I loose one - look at what the AI has and where, then re-play it. The satisfaction I get for winning a game though - first time through using 'real' tactics is what keeps me coming back.

In this particular mission - the AI has eyes apparently way back on my starting map. He clobbers my tanks on their starting location for example. I tend not to move tanks without some forethought - boy did I learn my lesson in this case (KO two of them with Uncle Arty!). AI also pounds a tree line and behind where I was staging.

Does the AI have pre-planned bombardment set up by the mission designer?

I assume I'm doing the right thing now - send out small teams to various locations to scope out enemy positions. Once I feel I have a good idea what the AI has where then I move out teams (and tanks) with objectives in mind.

I would love to have a list of easier battles - it's much more fun to learn if I can get a draw or better than learn by having my clock cleaned.

[AlexUK]

I think there is a pre-planned mission at the start, that varies with different AI plans. Otherwise, he is spotting your tanks and calling in a mission. Unlikely that there will be TRPs that far back, so you should have some warning before it comes down. Shouldn't damage the tanks too much though, and may be taking some of the pressure off your infantry;)

With the map design, he can also see much of your area - as a general rule I tend to keep my armour out of sight until I know what I am up against....

'Having your clock cleaned' - that's a new one on me - sounds a lot less unpleasant than having your ass handed to you!

[Atago]

I think there is a pre-planned mission at the start, that varies with different AI plans. Otherwise, he is spotting your tanks and calling in a mission. Unlikely that there will be TRPs that far back, so you should have some warning before it comes down. Shouldn't damage the tanks too much though, and may be taking some of the pressure off your infantry;)

With the map design, he can also see much of your area - as a general rule I tend to keep my armour out of sight until I know what I am up against....

'Having your clock cleaned' - that's a new one on me - sounds a lot less unpleasant than having your ass handed to you!

The AI has had really good luck (or I have had bad, or both) with dropping rounds on my tanks. I've started and re-started this mission quite a few times and now I know that unless I move them, at least one typically gets KO'd or has the tracks blown off - making it KO'd for mission purposes.

I really wonder who can see back under that line of trees.. grr, I want to drop some mortars on HIM!