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The jeep shuddered to a halt in a spray of rocks and dirt.. The driver frantically ground the gears in a desperate bid to find reverse.

Brooklyn looked up from Ziggy's corpse. The vein still pulsed. Smoothly, in a motion practiced thousands of times, he swapped the empty BAR magazine for a fresh one.

The driver found the gear and let out the clutch with a roar from the engine. Brooklyn calmly raised the BAR, applied some lead to anticipate the jeep, and fired several short, controlled bursts. The jeep slowed, then stalled. The driver, invisible behind the shattered windshield was silent. A moment's pause, then his body slumped out of the jeep to the ground.

"We don't want no witnesses blabbing about Ziggy, do we?" he asked. The men shook their heads.

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You also have to wonder why mortar crews would have been given this "superior" weapon which they would not expect to have to use, when the men at the direct tip of the spear only got rifles ?

P

I think this argument arises in large part from a disconnect between SMG effectiveness in-game and in reality. The subject of small arms ROF vs. accuracy has been debated recently in these fora and in the beta area (as you are already aware) and there seems to be a general consensus that CMx2 does not penalize the accuracy of automatic fire from unstabilized weapons as much as it should. One consequence of this is that while in reality an SMG would begin to lose it's advantage over a rifle at 50-100 meters, in-game it is able to maintain that advantage to 150-200 meters (depending on the particular SMG and rifle being compared). If SMGs performed more like they do in reality players would be less concerned about letting them lay in the dirt.

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Aghast at the sudden volley and horrifying death of his driver, our young forumite rolls out the passenger side careful to keep the vehicle between himself and the crazed bar gunner. Thinking quickly he realizes he needs a distraction. "hey you guys, is the V3 upgrade worth $10?...". As the argument escalates he slowly slinks away.

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I think this argument arises in large part from a disconnect between SMG effectiveness in-game and in reality. The subject of small arms ROF vs. accuracy has been debated recently in these fora and in the beta area (as you are already aware) and there seems to be a general consensus that CMx2 does not penalize the accuracy of automatic fire from unstabilized weapons as much as it should. One consequence of this is that while in reality an SMG would begin to lose it's advantage over a rifle at 50-100 meters, in-game it is able to maintain that advantage to 150-200 meters (depending on the particular SMG and rifle being compared). If SMGs performed more like they do in reality players would be less concerned about letting them lay in the dirt.

Ahh Yes, and the never ending debate that SMG's are to effective continues...Actually, Small Arms in general is to effective, but anyways...

It's Ok thou, it gets alittle worse with the 3.0 Upgrade since Small Arms now have varying rates of Fire, and Inf still have the same cover & posture values.

If I had it my way, then the game system would have the 'Target Light' as default firing, and a 'Target Heavy' order ( the normal firing thats present now ) be an option under certain curcumstances.

It gets to the point that if you don't want your Company to take 50% casualties in less then an hour, then it's best that you don't show up.

Oh Sorry, was I being alittle off topic here :-)

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If I had it my way, then the game system would have the 'Target Light' as default firing, and a 'Target Heavy' order ( the normal firing thats present now ) be an option under certain curcumstances.

you do know that Target Light has little or no effect on the RoF of small arms. All it does is (largely) shut down the use of supplementary weapons like MANPAT and Rifle Grenades by the element selected. Unless something has changed since it was tested.

And frankly, the problem isn't with RoF, if there's a problem at all. It's with the players' behaviour and possibly some AFV vulnerability (AFV gunners don't seem to get any "terrain save" like a shooter in a window or even cowering in an open field does). Watch how the pTruppen shoot. It's not like they're banging out rounds rapid-fire most of the time. They take aimed shots. Maybe they're too accurate, but I don't find infantry small arms to be the arm of decision very often at all. Rifle teams don't very often have more than half a dozen casualties to their name if they've not closed to grenade range, and most don't score any.

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The jeep shuddered to a halt in a spray of rocks and dirt.. The driver frantically ground the gears in a desperate bid to find reverse.

Brooklyn looked up from Ziggy's corpse. The vein still pulsed. Smoothly, in a motion practiced thousands of times, he swapped the empty BAR magazine for a fresh one.

The driver found the gear and let out the clutch with a roar from the engine. Brooklyn calmly raised the BAR, applied some lead to anticipate the jeep, and fired several short, controlled bursts. The jeep slowed, then stalled. The driver, invisible behind the shattered windshield was silent. A moment's pause, then his body slumped out of the jeep to the ground.

"We don't want no witnesses blabbing about Ziggy, do we?" he asked. The men shook their heads.

I'm hooked! I want to read the whole story ... novella, or war and peace?

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You also have to wonder why mortar crews would have been given this "superior" weapon which they would not expect to have to use, when the men at the direct tip of the spear only got rifles ?

First of all, how many members of a mortar crew get SMGs? The photos I've seen show the gunner and asst. gunner packing pistols or in some cases carbines. The ammo carriers get M1s, or if they of slight build maybe they get carbines too. But assuming that at some point in the war they started getting SMGs, the rationale to me seems a bit obvious. Their primary weapon, the one they are expected to be proficient with, is the mortar. It is not expected that they will be more than passingly proficient with their sidearm, which in any case is intended for close-in self defense, not so that they can go sniping with it. So it makes sense to give them a "spray and pray" kind of weapon. And if they burn through their issue of ammo for it, probably not a big deal, since if the enemy has gotten any men back this far, it is long past the point where they should have packed up and fallen back anyway.

Michael

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I think this argument arises in large part from a disconnect between SMG effectiveness in-game and in reality.

Not for me. I am very happy with rifles on long ranges and pull the SMG out of the line if possible to preserve the ammo for situations where i need some close range firepower. Loosing the only automatic except the LMG is very annoying to me espacially since there is lots of close quarter fighting not only in urban areas but also in bocage.

You're joking, right?

No, dead serious. The game is spoiled for me. Lacking other entertainment I decided to troll the forum instead. ;)

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Started to read Websters book, which is great reading and i trust also authentic. Some fun facts:

1. In the hours after dropping into Normandy captured vehicles were used by the Paras (should qualify as during battle).

2. In Holland they were riding tanks into (likely) battle with the order: Ride until you get hit.

3. A recently shot captain got relieved of his peronal equipment by company HQ (not mentioning his gun). Looting of fallen fellow soldiers seems not to have been uncommon.

4. Webster broke a Thompson not issued to him hunting a rabbit in England. (doesnt elaborate on his choice of weapon).

5. A volunteer for a battalion patrol to assault a farmhouse borrowed a Thompson from the mortar squad and stuffed the clips in his pockets. (this seems to have made its way into Wikipedia).

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As I often say, it was a big war and anything that could happen probably did somewhere sometime. That isn't to say though that it was anything like standard practice. Writing the game code so that picking up SMGs becomes standard practice strikes me, on the basis of the best information presently available, as a serious distortion of history. I suppose you could write it in such a way that it was only rarely possible, or only under certain specified circumstances, but that just seems like another can of worms having very little value in opening.

Michael

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Silence dropped like a veil over the field. Suddenly, from behind the shot up jeep, a small, querulous, feminine-sounding voice could be heard saying, "hey you guys, is the V3 upgrade worth $10?...".

Brooklyn suddenly straightened. His head snapped towards the mewling sounds coming from behind the jeep. The vein pulsated. Mitch exchanged a look with Kansas. Brooklyn quickly strode towards the jeep, BAR twitching from side to side. Mitch gave Kansas a "follow me" head movement. Kansas nodded. The two of them raced towards Brooklyn who was nearing the jeep.

Gus noticed all of this. He gave a sharp elbow to O'Hara, who was just drinking a great swallow from his whisky filled canteen. The jab caused O'Hara to splutter and cough. With a glare, he asked, "What's the meaning of that"? Gus simply nodded in the direction of the other three. O'Hara understood immediately. He replaced his canteen and moved off in trail. Gus looked at Lady's Man and fng, nodded towards the jeep and Brooklyn, and they all moved off.

"Well, what have we here?", roared Brooklyn as he rounded the hood. The sight of the quivering, overweight, rear-echelon headquarters type filled him with rage. A rage reflected in his voice. And, more so, in the white-knuckled clench his fists had on his weapon.

Kansas quickly joined in. "Hey", he said, "I think it's our turn, Brooklyn." Mitch nodded.

The fat man on the ground kicked his heels in the dirt in a fruitless attempt to get away. Brooklyn merely stepped on his sleeve and stopped him.

Mitch spoke up. "Yeah, I think I want to take care of this."

Brooklyn looked from one to the other. "You mean, you guys are willing to pitch in"?

"Sure", Mitch said, "you do most of the work. Let us do this. You take a break."

O'Hara and the rest surrounded them, forming a wall around the mewling man on the ground and Brooklyn, Kansas, and Mitch.

"Yeah, I'd like that", said Brooklyn. "Guys like this. They're the reason why The Kid bought it."

"Don't you worry about it", said Kansas. "This guy'll get what he deserves. We'll see to it. Right, guys?" He made eye contact with the rest. They understood.

"Sure. That'd be great" stated Brooklyn.

O'Hara said, "C'mon, Brooklyn, let's go over here while Kansas takes care of this."

Brooklyn's head sank. He seemed to shrink into himself. The muzzle of the BAR slowly dropped till it pointed towards the ground. He nodded to himself, as if agreeing to the outcome of some sort of an internal debate. Looking up, he said to O'Hara, "Sure. Let's go. I'd like that." The vein was no longer visible.

Kansas heaved a sigh of relief. He exchanged glances with Mitch. This man's life would be saved.

BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

Stunned, Kansas spun around! The mewling lickspittle was dead. Blood pumped out of the pulped mass which had once been his head. In disbelief, Kansas looked at fng, who stood there, smoking .45 in his hand. Fng looked around and said, "Now you guys know you don't have to worry about me. I can do the dirty work."

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The reality was that Allied troops would often pick up German SMGs' date=' something that can't be replicated in the game. They would also get shot out of hand if captured with them, rather than taken prisoner. Let's be thankful that that can't be replicated in the game either.[/quote']

Also for CMRT Germans often used the Russian smg.

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