Another Wish List Thread: What do you want to see in the CM:BN Battlepack?

[kendar]

the reason i insist on these points is because i fear dev to rely on the modders excellent work.

Indeed, why upgrade the all thing if the modders do themselves ?

for me a mod should be a mod to go (as Jock Tamson tell) in a different way that the subject of the game.

the fact that near every one mod the game just to upgrade graphic made me sad.

But, i return to my grave, RIP.

EDIt : i said i was french only to point normandy grass is no way so bright... and the laser is not for being funny, when i Watch replay it reminds me more starwars than WW2...

[A Canadian Cat]

the reason i insist on these points is because i fear dev to rely on the modders excellent work.

Indeed, why upgrade the all thing if the modders do themselves ?

for me a mod should be a mod to go (as Jock Tamson tell) in a different way that the subject of the game.

Ah, I see. That I get. Although you could make the counter argument that they could let the modders keep doing what they do and *not* update the graphics and instead focus on adding new content. But I will not make that argument because they should strive to make the game look good out of the box.

EDIt : i said i was french only to point normandy grass is no way so bright... and the laser is not for being funny, when i Watch replay it reminds me more starwars than WW2...

Understood. I often wonder about people's monitors when I hear the "its too bright" complaints. Monitor manufacturers have a habit of defaulting to as bright and saturated a screen as they can produce. Studies have indicated that in stores (you know where there is a wall of monitors) the brightest most saturated monitors are the ones people pick.

My other hobby is photography so every computer I play the game on has a calibrated monitor. And without exception every monitor I have ever calibrated for the first time has needed the brightness reduced. Usually by quite a lot. So, it could be that I feel that my grass looks good because I am viewing it on a monitor whose brightness is turned down compared to yours.

[Darknight (DC)]

Not to disappoint people, but there seems to be a number of things being 'wished' for that are probably quite unlikely to show up in BFC's definition of a 'Battlepack'.

Personally, I think the following are likely/possible:

1) Flame vehicles and units (Crocodiles, man-portable flamethrowers)

2) Commandos and Rangers (since we have Rangers in CMFI)

3) Free French forces

4) a few battles or a campaign to utilize the new units

I would also hope to see (but don't necessarily expect):

5) Priest 'Kangaroo' (used by the Canadians in August 1944)

6) some captured French vehicles for the Germans

7) other 'Funnies', such as Churchill AVRE, LVTs, Sherman Crabs (not with spinning flails)

8) additional flavour objects (crashed gliders, etc)

[sburke]

Not to disappoint people, but there seems to be a number of things being 'wished' for that are probably quite unlikely to show up in BFC's definition of a 'Battlepack'.

8) additional flavour objects (crashed gliders, etc)

That one is probably unlikely. BF has had an issue with glider size flavor objects due to the way they react in game. Be nice to see them as an immobile vehicle though maybe. Be kind of cool to have them appear on map in a scenario as loaded with reinforcements.

[MikeyD]

Here's a random Google earth screen grab of a patch of Normandy countryside, and a screenshot of CMBN to compare to. Its ironic that some people have complained that CMRT grass isn't color saturated enough! Well, there's always 'movie mode', then you won't need to worry about grass color at all.

[kendar]

Hum,

let's say "I think MikeyD has a Point".

what's the weather in you screenshot ?

Try with the scenario "the road block"...

And what it should be in my opinion...

[Darknight (DC)]

That one is probably unlikely. BF has had an issue with glider size flavor objects due to the way they react in game. Be nice to see them as an immobile vehicle though maybe. Be kind of cool to have them appear on map in a scenario as loaded with reinforcements.

I remember a discussion regarding that a while back.

It's one of the things I'd 'wish' for but I fully realize it's quite unlikely.

[Sequoia]

Out of curiosity, I know Free French forces liberated Paris and they were, by racially motivated design, "white" Free French. IIRC there were other "ethnic" (African, Arab) Free French in the Northern France in '44. For accuracy, would Battlefront have to introduce an "ethnicity" tag on units to properly determine which faces to use?

[Quintus Sertorius]

Billowy black (and white) burning vehicle smoke that flows over the ground with the wind (if any) before dispersing.

[Michael Emrys]

And what it should be in my opinion...

Okay, now to me that looks like an overcast day. Just dreary in other words. Now, given that the summer of '44 was unusually cloudy in Normandy, I suppose you could make a case that that would be historically accurate, but we already have a weather option for clouds and/or rain. Maybe the desaturated grass mod could be linked to that weather.

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

Okay, now to me that looks like an overcast day.

Or the sun is behind a cloud. The grass in front of my apartment is brighter than that when the sun is directly on it, and I live in a desert.

[Hellas]

True life colors usually are not a criteria for the final result of artificial and artistic products like movies, pictures or games.

Color palettes in movies are defined almost freely by the creators to create the desired feeling and imagination. Realistic colors support all kinds of feelings and mood and therefore are not suited as the lead model. Artistic products go the other way: first define what is the intended perception at the viewer and then choose the colors and palette accordingly.

It's a very fascinating topic how extremely well this works without people noticing it consciously. It works on the subconsciousness and people just feel the result, but do not recognize for example how extreme the color palette of a movie or a certain scene is away from reality, to create the feelings the producers want them to have.

Costumes and scene-painters in movies are also strictly operating under this guidance.

But also reality doesn't allow the argument of realistic colors as model for artificial products like games or movies:

Green grass on a sunny day in a flourishing vegetation is so incredibly green, that trying to replicate that in a game, that is dominated by this color, only can lead to totally wrong proportions. It reminds me of an argument to make a user interface in the brightest white and to argue that bleached paper also is bright white and we do well reading it.

Since there is lots of green in CM environments, I think that overall it is very dominant - especially compared to the colors of the objects that carry the action. Ofcourse the objects movement is compensating for that, but as soon as the vehicles and soldiers don't move and stand still, the green plays the major role and dominates them.

Players ofcourse subjectively feel that, when they complain that the grass was too green. Ofcourse it is not compared with real world colors. But as I tried to explain that's not a good model for artificial and artistic products like movies, pictures or games.

[Michael Emrys]

It's a very fascinating topic...

Indeed it is, and my disagreement with you does not lie in what your post contains, but with the assumption that suppressed color in the case of vegetation is better at creating the desired mood in the player. For me, it does not. For me, the cloudy day look just makes me want to pack it in and go read a book instead. If you like that look and want to play in such an environment, I have no problem with that. Just don't drag me into it.

Michael

[Warts 'n' all]

Personally, as a relative newcomer to this generation of Combat Mission I think that with the standard lighting it looks great. When I have tried so-called "movie lighting" I've found it looks unrealistically grey and ugly. Sadly, it seems popular nowadays, even with BBC documentary makers. If I want want grey conditions I'll wait for cloud cover.

[Erwin]

I dunno about other vidcards, but NVidia allows you to mess around with colors etc to get whatever desired "mood" lighting one wants.

[Sequoia]

A few things I´d love to see:

4-Target briefly+Hide: Extremely useful if you want to shoot and being undiscovered.

Well this would be something one would see in Cmx2 4.0 and not a pack, but I too have wished for a special command for snipers where they steathily aim and then hide after their shot.

[JonS]

I'm not sure people quite understand the concept of a BATTLEpack.

I guess the name of them is a bit ambiguous.

[Bradley]

For larger battles more than a few tanks you can lose track of which ones or buttoned or not. A symbol on UI designating unbuttoned with just one click is more fluid less cumbersome.

[Erwin]

+1 for a visual symbol for buttoned/unbuttoned.

[Darknight (DC)]

Changes to the UI are not what I understand to be included in 'Battlepacks'.

They are more in line for inclusion in 'Patches' or 'Upgrades'.

[sburke]

I'm not sure people quite understand the concept of a BATTLEpack.

I guess the name of them is a bit ambiguous.

AHHHH my eyes, my friggin eyes!!!!!! Wow CMBN looks really saturated now......

[DavidFields]

I'm not sure people quite understand the concept of a BATTLEpack.

I guess the name of them is a bit ambiguous.

OK, I will bite. I would like to see a campaign that one could unreservedly send a player who is brand new to CM2 and know that person would have fun and begin to learn the basics.

For example, the possible briefing for battle 1.

Lieutenant Richardson stands up to talk: "Alright, you wet-behind-the-ears recruits. We almost had a disaster yesterday when squad 1 did not communicate with squad 2. Remember, just because YOU see something does not mean All of us see it! You have to COM-MUN-I-CATE. Keep on those radios and keep linked up to me and the other squad.

Now, in 30 minutes, I want squad 1 to lay down some suppressive fire on that house over there on the right. Squad 2, I want you to go through the forests on the left, circle behind that pill box, and blow it open from the rear. Squad 2, if you encounter some enemy over there, back off, and call in mortar fire.

I don't write so good, so no one get killed, so I don't have to write one of those #%#& letters to your parents"

[There will be a small enemy team in the left woods]

[The scoring criteria will be weighted toward very low casualties]

Lessons, hopefully, to be gleaned from this exercise:

1. A beginning understanding of relative spotting. It is a great idea, but takes newbies time to adjust to. One can read about it in the manual, but it is not the same as experiencing it.

2. A beginning understanding of calling in artillery. In battle, not a training exercise, so as to be more exciting.

3. Learning how to blow open a bunker from the back door because...god help us...it is fun. Maybe gunning down the bunker survivors when they flee should not be fun.....but CM2 is not an amusement park simulator. As an added bonus, this is a good skill for a newbie to know, because otherwise those bunkers can be very perplexing when you first run into them.

4. A very beginning of understanding of suppressive fire, to be expanded upon in the following battles of the campaign.

[Hister]

Excellent ideas Rankorian but that should be added in a base game so that it won't be obligatory for beginners to also own this particular pack.

[Scipio]

I would rather like to have different "silhouette hq *.bmp" files for all the different nations and branches instead of just 4 at all. This may sound a bit weird to the uninitiated right now, but you will understand the reason when I release my next mod.

[Sequoia]

Excellent ideas Rankorian but that should be added in a base game so that it won't be obligatory for beginners to also own this particular pack.

Perhaps we can recruit a volunteer to write something up such as that for the demos.