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blow56

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On the Western Front Allied vehicles first sported big white stars, then stars in big white circles, then stars in even bigger white circles, then they added big fluorescent colored recognition panels draped over the back. Apparently the ground forces had some concerns about those flyboys overhead shootin' 'em up. Most of the gun camera footage you see on the history channel didn't come from dedicated CAS aircraft assigned targets but from escort fighters shooting up anything they saw moving on the way home from a bomber escort mission. You import aircraft into the game at your own risk. Its like fighting night battles - if you do it you have to expect the possibility of friendly fire casualties.

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  • 5 months later...

I have not tested this, but my own experience plus comments from others does suggest that trees do not provide much concealment from aircraft. They should, of course, but the point is that when playing scenarios with air support present I assume all units to be effectively out in the open at all times.

Just looking to see if trees offer cover from planes and I seem to agree with Vanir as in the last scenario of the German campaign I hid my vehicles in trees and have stuff out in the open. Numerous times the trees have offered no protection. Vehicles under the trees were targeted instead of those out in the open.

I was a tad surprised hence my search to see if it is a feature of the game that could be tweaked.

BTW one of the staff runs was Soviet on Soviet when I still had plenty out in the open.

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  • 2 months later...

Will someone in BF please fix this mess?

 

 

 I feel your pain, Blow. And right now, I'm pretty disgusted with what I'm seeing as far as friendly aircraft strafing/bombing friendlies.

Over the course of the last four turns of a PBEM game with a friend, I've had two trucks towing ATG guns totally destroyed along

with the crews/drivers.

  While they've managed to knock out two enemy vehicles, I'm not at all happy with the way air-to-ground is working. (or not working)

I actually quit the game twenty seconds into the last "movie" I was so angry. 

  I'm sure the Battlefront apologists will see fit to post up the usual excuses/rationale for it. But..........

Why do we -never- see friendly fire "incidents" with tanks and infantry. It -never- happens. Period.

Rationalize -that-.

 

Regards, Oddball-CAF

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Why do we -never- see friendly fire "incidents" with tanks and infantry. It -never- happens. Period.

Rationalize -that-.

 

Regards, Oddball-CAF

 

Ill bite just because you are wrong and need to be corrected before someone believes you.

 

Infantry can kill friendlies by using explosives like AT grenades and bazookas, tank AP, and HE can kill friendlies as well. Air power in an active AO is always a rather large risk, we still kill friendlies with air strikes, some things never change.

Edited by Raptorx7
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Ill bite just because you are wrong and need to be corrected before someone believes you.

 

Infantry can kill friendlies by using explosives like AT grenades and bazookas, tank AP, and HE can kill friendlies as well. Air power in an active AO is always a rather large risk, we still kill friendlies with air strikes, some things never change.

 

  An interesting reply, yet I'm going to bet you can't show me a single file where a friendly ground unit -intentionally- knocked out another friendly vehicle/unit 

due to misindentifying said target(s). As well, the distance/separation of the German/Russian units in this PBEM I'm doing is currently 2500 yards

with easily discernible landmarks such as two small town/compounds and a river which would have been addressed in a pre-flight briefing. ie: "You are not to

engage any armor. vehicles or troops South of the river".

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You say that like the vast majority of the pilots would have any idea what "South of the river" means.  Identifying anything short of a really large major river is seriously hit or miss for pilots, especially when they're looking out for AA and enemy aircraft.  They're flying over a patch of ground they've never seen before in a combat situation.  As someone who has done some piloting, I can tell you the pucker factor would make that difficult.

 

As far as friendly ground units hitting other friendlies due to misidentification, no one needs to show you anything, you can easily look up dozens of incidents.

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As far as friendly ground units hitting other friendlies due to misidentification, no one needs to show you anything, you can easily look up dozens of incidents.

Not that it matters, much, but Oddball is looking for blue-on-blue due to misidentification (rather than just being too near HE/heavy calibre stuff aimed deliberately at someone else). I'm pretty sure he's correct that it is impossible for, for example, a team to stray into a firelane and be engaged before identification is complete. Mines are side-agnostic, but not the targeting decisions of the pTruppen.

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Correct.

 

A couple seconds searching shows lots of examples.

 

http://search.usa.gov/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&affiliate=cmh&query=friendly+fire&commit=Search

 

From the very first entry:

 

"The trouble on the highway was apparently the result of another incident in the two-day mix-up between our own infantry and the armor of Combat Command B. When the leading elements of Task Force Y, Company I of the 33d Armored Regiment, finally got to the highway about 1630 after their painful progress across country, they became confused and turned north up the main road, advancing straight toward the 117th's lines and toward the division's supporting guns, both tank destroyers and antiaircraft batteries. With a real and dangerous German armored attack in progress just to the west, there was every reason for the fully-alerted antitank crews to swing into action. A fight instantly developed, the armor coming in with its 75-mm guns and machine guns blazing. The two leading tanks were knocked Out by friendly fire before Company I realized its mistake and turned south on a proper course."

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Gah. Sorry. I didn't clarify at all, did I? He's looking for examples in the game I think. Sure, Blue-on-blue air-to-ground happens IRL and should be modelled in-game, but it happens ground-to-ground with small arms and DF HE intentionally fired at a mistakenly identified targets too, IRL, and that's what isn't modelled in-game.

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I don't have any screenshots or saved games to prove it...

Maybe I misunderstand where this thread just turned off but I have seen some of my ground units open fire on their own troops. It was only for part of a turn and then stopped. One time was on Macisle's "Under the White Manor" map in a battle against The Teacher. And definitely one other time in another battle. I will keep a better eye to save the file from now on. 

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Gah. Sorry. I didn't clarify at all, did I? He's looking for examples in the game I think. Sure, Blue-on-blue air-to-ground happens IRL and should be modelled in-game, but it happens ground-to-ground with small arms and DF HE intentionally fired at a mistakenly identified targets too, IRL, and that's what isn't modelled in-game.

 

Doh *smacks forehead*.  I missed that completely.

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I don't have any screenshots or saved games to prove it...

Maybe I misunderstand where this thread just turned off but I have seen some of my ground units open fire on their own troops. It was only for part of a turn and then stopped. One time was on Macisle's "Under the White Manor" map in a battle against The Teacher. And definitely one other time in another battle. I will keep a better eye to save the file from now on. 

That would be incredibly interesting if you ever do manage to capture it; it's not something I've ever seen, nor something my layman's synthesis understanding of how the game handles things suggests could be possible.

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