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now I have to pay for a 3.0 upgrade?

No, you don't have to pay for anything at all.

If you don't want hit decals or faster framerate or AA guns firing skyward then don't buy the product. If you do want that stuff but want it free of charge then you're out of luck. Its players who insist that the game be expanded, improved and updated. Well, this is what expanded, improved and updated looks like.

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just so you know, this kind of nickel and diming is what got KA50 upgrade for DCS into trouble.

and was not appreciated paying for the same product twice.

engine upgrades are supposed to be free, as in what other companies do.

Case in point they just upgrade all their products to 3.0, so now you buy it at this level. one price for all, now I'm paying for it twice as much then if I just buy it again

in the new wrapper.

so I go into the store not knowing about 3.0 buy CMBN at 2.12, then bam, oh buy the way you want 3.0 version scroll down further you got to buy that separately.

sounds to me a little deceiving.

I guess since I want all the bells and whistle, eye candy? I have to pay another $10.00 dollars, and then 3 months down the line It will all be v3.0 and we paid for it.

It will be at the regular $55.00 dollar price and we actually paid $10.00 dollars more for it.

Just saying..

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just so you know, this kind of nickel and diming is what got KA50 upgrade for DCS into trouble.

and was not appreciated paying for the same product twice.

engine upgrades are supposed to be free, as in what other companies do.

Case in point they just upgrade all their products to 3.0, so now you buy it at this level. one price for all, now I'm paying for it twice as much then if I just buy it again

in the new wrapper.

This isn't the same product. It is a different product with new features. They need to recover business costs in bringing these features to the older modules. Same product would be to leave well enough alone.

What other companies do? So BF is the same as every other company out there in the world? Their costs structures are the same as say General Electric or Lockheed?

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'Cept you are not paying for the same product twice.

But I highly doubt you use this same logic with your boss when it comes time for him to pay you. You know, after all you were already paid once for the work, so, why pay you again?

But like I said to the other guy, when is the last time you worked for three months for 10 bucks?

The alternative is that they don't have to upgrade ANYTHING after they feel like the game family has been patched to stability...THEN you won't have to pay a thing...and your title will get old and left behind. Wouldn't that be great? You'll save ten bucks every year!

Every time you eat a Whopper meal or rent some movies, buy a six pack, or drop 5 bucks on a scratch off and buy a Big Bite at 711 remember this conversation. Every one of those is a one shot deal that you won't be enjoying five years from now. Perspective is a helluva thing.

Mord.

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This isn't the same product. It is a different product with new features. They need to recover business costs in bringing these features to the older modules. Same product would be to leave well enough alone.

What other companies do? So BF is the same as every other company out there in the world? Their costs structures are the same as say General Electric or Lockheed?

its an upgrade to the same Engine, same game.

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I understand (I think). You're saying you want ONE price shown for the current/latest version of the game. Easy: $65.

Now, some say they are short of cash and can't afford the $10 for the upgrade. Cool. They have a great game for $55. See? More price points!

The upgrade JUST came out. Of course there'll be a bit of a period when it will be an add-on. Look at the v2 history. It came as an upgrade to v1. Now, you get v2 as the base. Guess what'll happen in the future?

Ken

Edited due to crosspost. If you REALLY thing add-on content should be free to you, then you're living in a dystopian dream world. Really. There are MANY posts/threads about the reasons for upgrades to cost money while patches are free. Check bobo's "whining" thread. It's unfraying somewhere around here...

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No, you do not have to pay for it.

Yes he does, at least if he wants to purchase further content developed for the CMBN series in the future, wishes to play multiplayer against someone who has purchased it or even wishes to benefit from future bug fixes and patches for the product he has already purchased. The idea that this "upgrade" is fully optional, as so many on these forums like to claim, is absurd and a lot of the criticism leveled against this form of what is essentially nickle-and-diming is quite justified.

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No, it's not. It's short sighted whining by people that can't see past their own cheapness. PERIOD.

Not one of you guys running your mouths about 10 bucks would EVER work for what you say BFC should...which is for FREE. And you probably wouldn't do an hour's overtime without billing your bosses. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

It's pathetic and annoying to listen to a bunch of grown humans cry every time an upgrade comes out because they feel that a single purchase from three years ago entitles them to a life time of labor support. Don't like it...don't buy it. Or go play all those other great 3d, squad level, tactical wargames, that keep upgrading their old titles to the newest engine version...FOR FREE.

Oh, yeah...I forgot...

Mord.

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As one who has repeatedly pointed out that I am not a grog but rather a computer gamer who discovered this great game, allow me to chime in. As one who has avidly played computer games since Gato (1983) I am very happy to pay for CM engine upgrades, here's why.

Almost all of the games I have loved over the years are now "obsolete". Many won't even run on modern computers. If I could have paid a small price to upgrade them I most certainly would have.

I want to see native 64 bit Windows CM, I'm sure it will happen at some point in the future, and when it does I want my "CM library" to be upgraded to 64 bit as well. For this I expect to pay, and as one who appreciates the value and advantages of 64 bit computing I will pay happily. When multi-core support is strategically incorporated I want my earlier titles to enjoy the advantages of these changes as well and I will happily pay for any upgrade offered.

The model for the Battlefield series, the Call of Duty series, the Medal of Honor series, the Dark Souls series, the Grand Theft Auto series, the Max Payne series, the Hitman series, the Elder Scrolls series, the Fallout series, the Madden Football series, the NBA 2K series, I could give many more examples, is to not provide engine upgrades but rather bring to market upgrades and content as a new title. When they do this they leave the old title behind. With the upgrade system no title is left behind!

For me, the absence of tank riding is more worthy of discussion than complaints about paying for an upgrade. Taking into consideration the additional amount of work involved in retrofitting tank riding (AIUI, new models at a minimum) I would have been happy to have paid more for the upgrade if it included this feature. I have a hard time imagining a special "tank riding upgrade" in the future and I know better than to expect new features in a patch, so I have basically given up hope of seeing tank riding in Normandy or Italy. One question I have is if a pack is created with tanks will those tanks be able to have riders? If not isn't the upgrade's feature set incomplete? I ask those questions as one who is happy to have received the upgrade, btw.

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I spent that on lunch with a co-worker. No replay value there.

That's the thing, people will blow money left and right on absolutely nothing without batting an eye and here we have something tangible that is continuously being built upon, that we can enjoy in a myriad of ways for years, and they get upset about spending a tiny amount over a year or so. Like I said, the alternative is what...it's better to just let the older titles stagnate? WTF?

Mord.

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I spent that on lunch with a co-worker. No replay value there.

That's pretty much how I think about it. For $10 bucks, I could have two beers at the pub with friends and about one enjoyable hour.

Or...

I can have hit decals, command lines, AI triggers and all the other goodies in the upgrade to be enjoyed for hundreds (thousands?) of hours of great gaming over many years.

Like...the ultimate no-brainer.

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I will eventually buy both upgrades, but the thing that I don't like is there's no discount (say, 15-20%) for buying both upgrades at the same time. That's pretty standard fare for other software titles that I've purchased multiple upgrades/DLC for in one purchase. As it is, I'm probably going to wait a while until I feel the price drops to a point I want to pay.

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I understand (I think). You're saying you want ONE price shown for the current/latest version of the game. Easy: $65.

Now, some say they are short of cash and can't afford the $10 for the upgrade. Cool. They have a great game for $55. See? More price points!

The upgrade JUST came out. Of course there'll be a bit of a period when it will be an add-on. Look at the v2 history. It came as an upgrade to v1. Now, you get v2 as the base. Guess what'll happen in the future?

Ken

Edited due to crosspost. If you REALLY thing add-on content should be free to you, then you're living in a dystopian dream world. Really. There are MANY posts/threads about the reasons for upgrades to cost money while patches are free. Check bobo's "whining" thread. It's unfraying somewhere around here...

Ken - You could be the last person I would want to disagree with, but I think $100 is probably closer to the right price for one of these games with perpetual upgrades.

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Yes he does, at least if he wants to purchase further content developed for the CMBN series in the future, wishes to play multiplayer against someone who has purchased it or even wishes to benefit from future bug fixes and patches for the product he has already purchased. The idea that this "upgrade" is fully optional, as so many on these forums like to claim, is absurd and a lot of the criticism leveled against this form of what is essentially nickle-and-diming is quite justified.

It is completely and totally optional. You can not spend your money while at the same time pretending BFC spent not a dime on keeping titles up to date when they could have moved on. You will have the game in exactly the state it would have been in if BFC hadn't invested in further development. This should lead to happiness, as long as you do not covet thy neighbor's upgrade.

Why can't people see this? The only way BFC can continuously upgrade products is if people pay them for it. Refusal to acknowledge this is either willful stupidity or just simple greed. The only other way would be either some sort of a subscription plan, or an upfront "lifetime upgrades" price like hobo mentioned for each title (think $100+ for base game, like the Steel Beasts model.)

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so I go into the store not knowing about 3.0 buy CMBN at 2.12, then bam, oh buy the way you want 3.0 version scroll down further you got to buy that separately.

sounds to me a little deceiving.

How is this deceiving? BFC described how this was going to work months ago. If you didn't know, then you just haven't been paying attention.

Michael

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