Michael Emrys Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Oh for those simpler days of yore where DRM stood for Die Roll Modifier... Yeah, every time I see those three letters, that's the first thing that pops into my mind. I'm not sure those days were simpler though. I recall with virtually no fondness whatsoever trying to mentally add up a long list of combat factors along with their modifiers in my head. And don't get me started on counting up movement points vs. terrain costs. I'm quite happy to turn all that over to my Mac. And if it cheats, at least it is more clever about concealing the fact than my human opponents ever were. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I have given it some thought and decided, what the hell why wait? I am pissed that 4.0 is gonna see me spend another $10 for features I should get for free and am pissed (fill in random possible feature) wasn't included!! Hey that makes me first to complain about the 4.0 upgrade! Woot! Anybody want to take on 5.0? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Anybody want to take on 5.0? [raises hand] I will! I'm pissed that BFC doesn't follow the methodology of all that cool new software nowadays with automatic upgrades for free. But at the same time, they should also avoid the $150/year subscription fee. I mean really, it's just a game. Where does BFC get off charging so much? I say we should take their pets hostage until they comply with our wishes! You wouldn't like to see something nasty happen to Fluffy, would you? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Maybe BF could organize a "bidding system" where we bid what we're willing to pay for a particular feature or upgrade or new game, and they can analyze the bids to decide what would be the most cost-effective new "project" to do next. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Maybe BF could organize a "bidding system" where we bid what we're willing to pay for a particular feature or upgrade or new game, and they can analyze the bids to decide what would be the most cost-effective new "project" to do next. Interesting concept...but it would entail a pile of work that would take somebody's time away from designing/developing/testing new games, and somehow I don't see that as consistent with BFC's style. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Obviously, every utterly brilliant idea has toothing issues lol. It has been mentioned b4 that cardboard game developers have long floated game concepts and solicited pre-orders to decide which concept to actually develop. Their customers have to commit to paying via CC for a new game that they "voted on". However, their CC's are not charged unless the game is actually produced and shipped. That way the company already knows it has a revenue of "x" before committing to a particular game. In my experience, these cardboard game companies have less resources than even BFC. But, it appears to be a successful model. Of course, it costs a LOT more to develop any computer software and hence a potential flaw. But, I wuz thinking that this way we could reduce by 90%+ the arguments etc on these forums re what BFC should be doing next. (Although, maybe that's part of the game's entertainment value... Hmm.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Maybe BF could organize a "bidding system" where we bid what we're willing to pay for a particular feature or upgrade or new game, and they can analyze the bids to decide what would be the most cost-effective new "project" to do next. You are essentially describing Kickstarter. It would be interesting to see if some folks would put money where their mouth is with that. However, unless BFC wanted to higher newer programmers/artists this would probably not be super helpful. I suspect the primary limit is not monetary, but the number of man hours available. So unless enough money is raised to higher new people I don't see us getting much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 In my experience, these cardboard game companies have less resources than even BFC. Indeed. Having been out of that side of the hobby for about 25 years, I'm not certain exactly what the form is nowadays. But back when I was following the hobby closely, the most common organization was one guy did the research and design, with maybe some graphics help from a partner in the company. Then the play testing was mostly done by unpaid friends and fans. A few earned enough money this way to live on, but many others had to have an outside job to support themselves. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackHand Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Ten dollars to ship a CD seems a bit steep to me. I have an online business and I know that I can ship a CD for less than two dollars via 1st Class Mail. I could put it in a Small Flat Rate Priority box for about five bucks. So, where's the extra $$ that I'm spending actually going? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 It would be interesting to see if some folks would put money where their mouth is with that. Umm wait a minute, aren't you the guy trying to get BF to discount stuff? Don't mean to be embarrassing or anything but as Alanis might say "isn't it ironic?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Ten dollars to ship a CD seems a bit steep to me. I have an online business and I know that I can ship a CD for less than two dollars via 1st Class Mail. I could put it in a Small Flat Rate Priority box for about five bucks. So, where's the extra $$ that I'm spending actually going? Steve's yacht consumes a ton of fuel as he cruises the Riviera. Not to mention the bottles of Cristal he needs to fill the Charles jar with. Don't even get me started on the costs of the private jet that Chris and Phil use to go on their wild bashes in Bangkok. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Ten dollars to ship a CD seems a bit steep to me. These days burned CDs with graphics applied to them are rather like vinyl LPs with dust covers with artwork on the front and lyrics printed on the back. Its practically something out of a bygone era. As hard copy purchases dwindle manufacturers lose the vital 'economy of scale' production that kept the individual product cheap. $10 for hard goods either reflects the relative limited number of people purchasing hard goods these days or it might be the manufacturer deliberately pricing them to steer people away from hard goods into direct download instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Umm wait a minute, aren't you the guy trying to get BF to discount stuff? Don't mean to be embarrassing or anything but as Alanis might say "isn't it ironic?" Alanis? Who is dat? You pulling out those ancient rock references? Wow! Next thing we will see a post about LPs with lyrics and wait there it is! Whoa! Bobo Ps agree with you comment but was shocked by the post grunge rock reference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Obviously, every utterly brilliant idea has toothing issues lol. It has been mentioned b4 that cardboard game developers have long floated game concepts and solicited pre-orders to decide which concept to actually develop. Their customers have to commit to paying via CC for a new game that they "voted on". However, their CC's are not charged unless the game is actually produced and shipped. That way the company already knows it has a revenue of "x" before committing to a particular game. In my experience, these cardboard game companies have less resources than even BFC. But, it appears to be a successful model. Of course, it costs a LOT more to develop any computer software and hence a potential flaw. But, I wuz thinking that this way we could reduce by 90%+ the arguments etc on these forums re what BFC should be doing next. (Although, maybe that's part of the game's entertainment value... Hmm.) Multi Man publishing (the post AH ASL guys) do this but only before a print run. In other words before they incur costs other than their time. A bit different than CM. Historically, it appears all the good ideas get on a list and that list gets worked on eventually. Patience has paid off the last 15 years of following BTS and BFC. Good stuff is coming maybe not as we would like or maybe faster than some of us can play through all the games. Bobo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Also check out GMT Games who operate a similar system. There are others as well. However, cardboard games do have different economic issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Umm wait a minute, aren't you the guy trying to get BF to discount stuff? Don't mean to be embarrassing or anything but as Alanis might say "isn't it ironic?" I'm not trying to get BFC to discount stuff. Some folks will say repeatedly that they want BFC to charge more money. So if the opportunity presents itself to give BFC a $100 for something they should, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I'm not trying to get BFC to discount stuff. While true you did not ever use the word "discount". As a public service I did look at what you *did* say: though I never made mention of 99 cent Steam games. I said that I wouldn't want to pay more Arma 3, Red Orchestra 2, and the Paradox games, just to name a few, all provide free functionality updates to users. I think the high price point drives people away from buying multiple modules/theaters. But actually why is the CW module more expensive than the others? All the others are $35 and CW for some reason is $45. Right now it is more expensive than the base game by $10. I think you can see how people might think you are advocating discounting or lowering the price of the CM games. Because well you sure implied it - a few times To be fair you also did say: Now I would like to reiterate that I am fine with BFC's monetization policy. They can continue to do it and I will continue to buy some of their games. I'm not advocating that everything ever should be free or anything like that. There are different policies that would benefit the way I play CM more, but whatever. I got what I got. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I am actually impressed that Pelican Pal has managed to stay around here for 173 post. He must really love these games. I mean , when one has 400 games and a itch to scratch about once a week to get something new. he has pushed himself way out of his comfort zone. That money spent for the 3.0 updates really should have bought him something else. I think we should start placing bets as to how long he can hang in until he just move on and get back to buying and playing games to get to that 500 number. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 The entire price argument to me is just interesting within itself and partially because I feel that some people here have an odd view of market dynamics (higher price = more money right?). I never expected any change to occur and I'm not trying to get BFC to change their prices. I just find it interesting to talk about how BFC prices their stuff and how that relates to the wider video game industry. I also have never started a thread regarding pricing or complaining about the content of any BFC stuff. If someone is talking about it though I will join the discussion because I think it is interesting. (Although I guess I did start one thread because I was wondering if there was a way to buy 3.0 with a module/base game.) So if no one else talked about it I wouldn't talk about it, but people are, so I do. Slysniper, I am really enjoying CM:RT and have been playing that and DOTA 2 when I do play video games for the past while now. I am also very interested in Black Sea and would like to see how I could finaggle developing scenarios based on the current conflict using what we have in CM:BS. Although if you want to take bets I'll let you all know when I reach 450 and then 500. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The entire price argument to me is just interesting within itself and partially because I feel that some people here have an odd view of market dynamics (higher price = more money right?). This is a view we share There is a massive difference between the wider (mass market) game industry and niche gaming. This is true for pretty much any industry. The reason is that price only influences purchasing decisions when price is the primary decision point. If the product itself is the decision point, then price comes later. Here's the best example I can give... I like very eclectic, niche market music. You can price Lady Gaga down to $0.01 and I'd still not buy it because price isn't a factor in me not wanting to own any Lady Gaga music. Conversely, if the music I listened to was absolutely free I bet you close to 0.00% of Lady Gaga customers would even get through a single song before wiping it off their iPod. Again, it's because price has nothing to do with the desire to have/use the music. Now, if Lady Gaga reduce the price of her music it's very likely that lots and lots of people OTHER than me would take advantage of the offer. That is because the market she is in is massive and there's so much product choking the market that price and marketing have huge impacts. Plus, when you have millions of people buying your music you can make a lot of money off of the customer base through other means, such as lavish concerts, brand endorsements, merchandizing, etc. In fact, Lady Gaga could possibly make more of her money off of that stuff than the music itself (I don't know if that's true, just saying it's possible). This is not true for the niche music because they don't have that sort of marketability/clout or fanbase size. Back to gaming... Niche game developers that try to mimic what the mass market game developers do go out of business. Quickly. Niche market game development requires following a different set of principles and market dynamics. We've been around longer than pretty much any other niche market game developer and longer than the majority of mass market game developers. The two reasons for this is making a quality product and knowing how to be sustainable at doing it. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Steve,"...price only influences purchasing decisions when price is the primary decision point. If the product itself is the decision point, then price comes later.... We've been around longer than pretty much any other niche market game developer and longer than the majority of mass market game developers. The two reasons for this is making a quality product and knowing how to be sustainable at doing it." Satisfying summary of market dynamics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr_oberst Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Meh… in $$$/minute of playing time, it isn't really even measurable. Even if I add up CMBO, CMAK, CMBB, Battle for Normandy (PC and Mac), Commonwealth Forces, Market Garden, Fortress Italy, Gustav Line, and Red Thunder. Compared to other "entertainment", it's a steal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hmmm.... I read Steve's post. My take away? Steve is going to start CM concerts with a world-wide tour. T-shirts will soon be for sale... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hmmm.... I read Steve's post. My take away? Steve is going to start CM concerts with a world-wide tour. T-shirts will soon be for sale... Well, if it is compiled of the music on the game CD's, it is not likely to last long or be successful:p 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Well, if it is compiled of the music on the game CD's, it is not likely to last long or be successful:p Look at all the 1980s one hit wonder bands that are on world tours. They seem to be doing OK Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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