Whine about CM costs thread. Post here!

[bobo]

Can everyone that wants to whine about costs of any part of CM please only in this thread?

Bundles, upgrades, old modules. Post them here!

Let's keep the forum to discussion of the game.

Thanks,

Bobo

[Oddball_E8]

I'm unemployed with no benefits and (at the moment) no income at all.

Is it ok if I whine about the cost of noodles?

[Doug Williams]

[MikeyD]

Complaining about the total cost of CM is like complaining about the total cost of toilet paper. If you count-up every purchase of a particular product ever made you're likely to make it into the hundreds of dollars/Euros no matter what the product is. Same goes for the cost of a lifetime of candy bars, a lifetime of pizzas, a lifetime of breakfast cereal. Think of your monthly cable TV bill, now multiply it over 10 years - 120 months. Egad! All the CM products put together would be little more than that number's round-off error.

[Erwin]

My whine is that the games don't cost enough.

I want BF to do well financially so that they can hire the people needed to do things faster and more swiftly implement the features that are often called for in these forums.

If one calculates the man-hours of playing pleasure that every CM title has given us, there are very few, if any, other computer games that can compete in terms of hours "lived" on our hard drives.

In the past I considered that each CM title from the days of CM1 was worth over $300 when compared to the cost of the games I used to purchase and discard a few weeks later.

My only beef with the current system of "families" and "modules" is that they are a PITA to upgrade and patch individually compared to the enormous convenience that CM1 provided by having an entire theatre and in the case of CMBB the entire of the WW2 era in one single install.

The majority of us here in these forums would pay more for faster releases, improved/additional features etc. On the other hand, I have no idea of the demographics of the majority of BF's CM2 customers, and it's possible that they are nothing like those of use who frequent these forums.

[Michael Emrys]

In the past I considered that each CM title from the days of CM1 was worth over $300 when compared to the cost of the games I used to purchase and discard a few weeks later.

Yes. And when you add up all the costs associated with each game family, including modules and upgrades, that's pretty close to the sum you arrive at. BFC with its current merchandising policy is simply feeding that cost to us in small bite-sized portions that most of us can budget for easily enough. $300 in one go would be awfully hard for a lot of people to manage or even want to do. But $50-60 a pop is a lot more manageable. And of course the upgrades—and presumably the packs when they begin arriving—are a lot less.

Michael

[Doug Williams]

My whine is that the games don't cost enough.

I want BF to do well financially so that they can hire the people needed to do things faster and more swiftly implement the features that are often called for in these forums.

If one calculates the man-hours of playing pleasure that every CM title has given us, there are very few, if any, other computer games that can compete in terms of hours "lived" on our hard drives.

In the past I considered that each CM title from the days of CM1 was worth over $300 when compared to the cost of the games I used to purchase and discard a few weeks later.

My only beef with the current system of "families" and "modules" is that they are a PITA to upgrade and patch individually compared to the enormous convenience that CM1 provided by having an entire theatre and in the case of CMBB the entire of the WW2 era in one single install.

The majority of us here in these forums would pay more for faster releases, improved/additional features etc. On the other hand, I have no idea of the demographics of the majority of BF's CM2 customers, and it's possible that they are nothing like those of use who frequent these forums.

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

[ridethe415]

You want cheese with that whine?

Two games a year is $120, that's $10 a month. That is unbelievably cheap fun.

[The Steppenwulf]

Noone should have to buy the 2.0 upgrade twice just because one would like to spend lots more cash purchasing CM:BN modules.

Being forced to buy something you already have thus spending more money without receiving anything of value is technically a rip off and a perfectly legitimate gripe against any company, at any time, no matter how good their products are and no matter how highly valued they might be as a company.

The irony is that CM could take another £70 off me simply by acknowledging this bad business and providing a solution, but they obviously see nothing wrong with the situation which obviously mean they don't view this as bad business.

That is FUBAR!!

[MikeyD]

Noone should have to buy the 2.0 upgrade twice

No one DOES have to buy the 2.0 upgrade twice. Maybe you're thinking of another game. The upgrade cost chump change yet you spent £70. Maybe the problem isn't them.

[Lt Belenko]

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

+1. Ten characters to make this legal post.

[Michael Emrys]

Noone should have to buy the 2.0 upgrade twice just because one would like to spend lots more cash purchasing CM:BN modules.

I'm sorry, I don't follow what you are saying here. Who has to buy the 2.0 upgrade twice? I didn't and I haven't heard of anybody who did so far. Can you point me towards someone who did and something about the circumstances?

Michael

[bobo]

Noone should have to buy the 2.0 upgrade twice just because one would like to spend lots more cash purchasing CM:BN modules.

Being forced to buy something you already have thus spending more money without receiving anything of value is technically a rip off and a perfectly legitimate gripe against any company, at any time, no matter how good their products are and no matter how highly valued they might be as a company.

The irony is that CM could take another £70 off me simply by acknowledging this bad business and providing a solution, but they obviously see nothing wrong with the situation which obviously mean they don't view this as bad business.

That is FUBAR!!

Uncle Leo?

[ridethe415]

Uncle Leo?

Best. Post. Ever.

[Pelican Pal]

My whine is that the games don't cost enough.

I want BF to do well financially so that they can hire the people needed to do things faster and more swiftly implement the features that are often called for in these forums.

I completely disagree with you.

Increasing the cost does not also increase the amount of money BFC receives by default. Individuals have a limited amount of money to spend and increasing the price of something does not increase the amount of money an individual has to spend.

[Erwin]

Hmm... However, Rolls Royce and their competitors continue to do quite well with customers who appreciate quality.

Seriously, maybe BF doesn't feel that they have to appeal to the lowest price market like a 99c Store or somesuch.

[Pelican Pal]

Rolls Royce is also part of BMW. They are targeting a portion of the market. Not subsisting solely on the sales of those cars.

Seriously though I never made mention of 99 cent Steam games. I said that I wouldn't want to pay more, and that increasing the price does not increase income. If each game cost 500 dollars their income wouldn't suddenly increase by tenfold.

[Jack Ration]

I understand a "bundle" buyer might think the price is steep. But as a player who has bought each CMx2-3 title as they have been released I don't think it is that expensive. Back in the day, here in Oz a serious cardboard game cost around the same as a bundle now. And I would suggest the cost to produce a CMx2 game would be more (save on printing, but everything else is more exy). Plus AI, no LOS/LOF to figure out, movement costs, supply, etc ... I figure we are miles ahead!

[Michael Emrys]

Back in the day, here in Oz a serious cardboard game cost around the same as a bundle now.

Wow. Either you were getting seriously stuck by the people who were selling you boardgames or you are getting bundles now at a huge discount. Up until the end of the '70s, most boxed boardgames cost about US$5-10, with most of them falling in the lower part of that range. Starting at the end of the '70s prices began to rise, starting with the "monster" games, reasonably enough. Printing costs rose and if a game came with four maps and 2,000+ counters and a bunch of charts...

However...

Plus AI, no LOS/LOF to figure out, movement costs, supply, etc ... I figure we are miles ahead!

That I completely agree with.

Michael

[The Steppenwulf]

Just for clarification:- If a customer has previously purchased the 2.0 CM upgrade and now wishes to purchase CW and MG (= good business for BF) that customer is forced to repurchase the upgrade again (= bad business for the customer).

[c3k]

Wow. Either you were getting seriously stuck by the people who were selling you boardgames or you are getting bundles now at a huge discount. Up until the end of the '70s, most boxed boardgames cost about US$5-10, with most of them falling in the lower part of that range. Starting at the end of the '70s prices began to rise, starting with the "monster" games, reasonably enough. Printing costs rose and if a game came with four maps and 2,000+ counters and a bunch of charts...

However...

That I completely agree with.

Michael

Holy Antediluvian price quote, Batman!

For the record, my addiction started with PanzerBlitz, purchased circa '75 for $10. I bought The Devil's Cauldron and its sister game Where Eagles Dare for about $125 ($175?) each within the last few years. And those were discounted pre-order prices.

As much as those last two are phenomenal games and FULLY worth their price, CM gives me far more.

Your $5-10 quote is so far out of date, you may as well bring up your personal early gaming experience; the one using lava rocks and palm fronds to simulate your clan's struggle against saber toothed tigers and wooly mammoths.

[Fetchez la Vache]

I must admit I am beginning to think twice at what I am spending on CM. Although I am sure that hard grogs are happy with the costs, I also think that the price may be off-putting to less dedicated (and younger) CM players who will juggle with other games at the same time. I do wonder if the player base growth is being somewhat stifled as a result.

But as long as BFC stay solvent and keep churning these games out, then it's okay with me.

Especially if they port the old CMx1 games to OS X so my 8yo can play them!

[bobo]

Just for clarification:- If a customer has previously purchased the 2.0 CM upgrade and now wishes to purchase CW and MG (= good business for BF) that customer is forced to repurchase the upgrade again (= bad business for the customer).

That's not what I did. Bought each for $35 in May of this year. Bought 2.0 when it was released. Now I see CW is $45. Maybe that is a mistake?

Bobo

[Ubiquitous]

Since there’s a thread, here goes.

CM is a niche product in a market that probably has a fairly limited potential size. That acts as an effective deterrent to Battlefront’s would be competition and endows BF with de facto monopoly power. It comes, then, as no surprise to see them behaving like a monopolist. Compared to more competitive segments of the games industry, we observe persistently higher prices, patches with a positive price, relatively low rates of innovation/product development, extremely draconian activation restrictions, and frequent community interaction on the forums that might be concisely paraphrased as “we know better than our customers, so STFU” (see, e.g., the last post here: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=115612&page=17&highlight=steam).

This behaviour is buttressed by a sycophantic community that takes every opportunity to rush to BF's defence upon any suggestion that the company might cut consumers a better deal. Many in that community adopt the view that they get a lot of value out of the products, so ‘being exploited is okay’. In a properly functioning, competitive market, value is not an appropriate benchmark for price! Take out any introductory economics textbook and you will find that value-based pricing is the hallmark of the monopolistic exploitation of market power.

This is not a diatribe against BF. They are the only people making anything like this, they generally do a good job, and they have to cover their fixed costs which might go some way to justifying its pricing. But the community should do better, especially on lobbying over non-pecuniary issues. Mainstream gaming is littered with examples of proactive consumers securing better treatment for themselves. But a community that won’t stand up for itself should prepare to take it in the rear-end.

[Pelican Pal]

I must admit I am beginning to think twice at what I am spending on CM. Although I am sure that hard grogs are happy with the costs, I also think that the price may be off-putting to less dedicated (and younger) CM players who will juggle with other games at the same time. I do wonder if the player base growth is being somewhat stifled as a result.

I think the high price point drives people away from buying multiple modules/theaters. While the bigger detractor for the CM games growth is probably getting people to know about it. The demos provide a solid way of letting someway see if they will like it without any sort of purchase. I know that Matrix's no demo policy has put me off buying a number of their products. $50+ dollars is just too much to buy blind. BFC has done an admirable job of avoiding this.

Comparing digital game prices to board game prices is a dead end. They aren't comparable media and the audiences are largely independent of each other.