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Thanks, I'll check it out, though I don't think I ever played that one in ASL.

If I still had a scanned copy of "Guards Counterattack", I might try converting it, since it was so simple, IIRC. Was the first SL scenario I (and everyone else, I imagine) ever played.

Edit: Drat. I forgot I don't have the board either.

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I would take a "spirit of the law" approach to scenario design based on any SL/ASL scenarios (if I were to tackle any), rather than the "letter of the law". I prefer the historical modules (and the ATS ones as well), but haven't dug these out of the attic in a long while.

The maps were largely constrained by the modular design, with no real attention to historical terrain except in the historical modules (it was general, which suited the modular concept), and I find that when they are directly ported to CM from the source maps that they look strange to me.

I'd probably attempt one of the scenarios that were in villages/open terrain and adjust to make them interesting on their own terms in CM. The OOB would probably stay roughly the same after some balancing.

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Translating ASL scenarios literally is often not a good idea. The ASL scenarios are a great source of inspiration though. As a starting point (especially) the OOB is great. No need to copy the map, make a 'real' map using google maps and period maps. Once you start playtesting the OOB usually needs some tweaking. But as I said, they are a good starting point IMHO. In fact I am looking at some ASL scenarios right now for inspiration for 1945 scenarios.

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Quite a few of the SL scenarios including Guards Counterattack have been converted for LockNLoad 'Heroes of Stalingrad' - which BTW plays reasonably well as a computerized version of SL.

Since I have no idea what you are talking about......care to give more info on "LockNLoad Heroes of Stalingrad"?

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Translating ASL scenarios literally is often not a good idea. The ASL scenarios are a great source of inspiration though. As a starting point (especially) the OOB is great. No need to copy the map, make a 'real' map using google maps and period maps. Once you start playtesting the OOB usually needs some tweaking. But as I said, they are a good starting point IMHO. In fact I am looking at some ASL scenarios right now for inspiration for 1945 scenarios.

I concur and take the same approach. (A)SL situation briefs and OOB's are invaluable but I use the boardgame maps only as a design reference. The CMx2 overlay feature readily allows using/cropping period and google maps. These produce a much better scenario result.

ETO map resource

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=112291&highlight=maps

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That brings back memories! I still get a thrill just seeing the board and pieces. Mine are stowed away and very lonely.

In CMRT, those left flank Germans aren't going to last long against the SMG Russians. Crossing the street my still be iffy, if the center Germans are not occupied, though.

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Since I have no idea what you are talking about......care to give more info on "LockNLoad Heroes of Stalingrad"?

Ah, sorry but I'm not sure about the rules here on linking to other sites/wargames so googling "lock n load heroes of stalingrad" will find the relevant info for you. Basically it's a PC port of a tabletop game, uncannily similar to Squad Leader. Right down to seeing the die rolls. It has a couple very annoying rules, but it's fun as a beer'n'pretzels kind of game.

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How you gonna work out "Sewer Movement"? That was funny, roll a 6 and you end up in the wrong building...usually full of Germans. :)

You could do it by using the boardgame (or a different boardgame) to manage higher-level units and functions (including the sewer movement). Then you don't need to use sewer movement in CMRT, just start battles at the places and times the troops emerge from the sewer and contact the enemy, etc.

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And even if sewer movement ever did make it into a future CM, it should be constrained so that players can't move just anywhere they want to.

After all, sewer lines large enough for troops to move through have specific routes and entrances/exits, just as roads do. So they'd tend to run under the middle of streets, have manhole covers at intervals, and perhaps man-sized branches into major buildings like factories and train stations.

So here's how I would love to see it implemented:

The scenario editor gets a set of sewer line placement buttons just like roads, along with an entrance/exit point button that's placeable in the 2D screen. Those points get represented in-game by a manhole cover. The scenario editor should also allow the designer to set the level of intel about the sewer system for one side or the other -- important because the advantage of the sewers increases greatly for the side that knows them the best. Showing the known sewer routes could be viewable with an ALT+ toggle.

In-game, all anyone sees are the manhole covers. And since we also have manhole covers as flavor objects, it won't be possible to know which ones are real entry/exit points and which ones aren't unless you have the intel about the system (via the view toggle), happen to spot enemy units entering/exiting it, or test it by trying to send someone down there.

A player could enter/exit infantry units from manholes with the green arrow icon (like mounting a vehicle). The unit would then do a descending/emerging animation and only its icon would be visible to the owning player. It could be moved just like other units, but at a very slow rate of movement and with heavy fatigue penalties. And once in the sewers, the unit can't exit except at the preset entrance/exit points.

Units that encounter enemy while underground in the sewer system would have an abstracted close combat, with severe morale effects that would usually leave both sides very easily shaken.

So, bottom line -- sewers would be great for covert infiltration, flanking, rear area harassment, etc., but not for large-scale troop movements or actual combat underground.

And, having said all that, how useful would the sewers really be and how often would players really use them? And how much BFC coding and animation time do you think all that would represent? I'll bet that puts it into the category of ("cool to have but not cost-effective so we'll never do it") category.

I'd much rather see flares and illumination implemented for nighttime, and spreadable fire, before underground/sewer movement. Those two things would have much wider application to all the other CM titles, too.

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There was sewer movement in CMBB. Squads screwed into the floor, as I recall. But people didn't actually use it, because it was so random...

I did use it once in a Stalingrad Tournament. It took so long for the Pioneers to arrive I forgot about them. Around 20 turns if memory serves me correctly. Didn't help the cause much.

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Well here it is, one ugly map, it's flat and lacks any fidelity. If anybody wants it drop me an with an email address and I'll send it on.

0nYwMFneuvOjd-uHwZL118WzkTy2i_7Ml9xRdvYWPSM=w1023-h804-no

GC2.jpg

This is why you are better off making a fresh map. IMO ASL does not translate well to CM2 as it's maps lack detail and there are major scale issues between the two games.

P

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