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a question about doors...


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So I'm playing a pbem with a mate and there is a small L-shaped cluster of 3 buildings. Each of the adjoining wall pairs has only one door, i.e., each pair consists of a wall with no door and a wall with a door. I did not think a soldier could pass through a solid wall to use a door in an adjoining wall and I was quite surprised when they did. So, my question is two-fold, are door/solid-wall combinations supposed to work this way, and if so, should they work this way?

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I've wondered about the exact rules for doors myself, and I hope someone answers.

Door placement is under the control of the map maker--it's not an automatic thing. Ideally, the mapper manually checks every pair of adjoining walls and gives them both doors (or not), but on a crowded urban map this can mean many hundreds of pairs.

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So I'm playing a pbem with a mate and there is a small L-shaped cluster of 3 buildings. Each of the adjoining wall pairs has only one door, i.e., each pair consists of a wall with no door and a wall with a door. I did not think a soldier could pass through a solid wall to use a door in an adjoining wall and I was quite surprised when they did.

Yeah, I have seen that a lot. But no always there are several maps where the doors match up - or at least there is a door on both sides even if they don't line up all the time.

So, my question is two-fold, are door/solid-wall combinations supposed to work this way, and if so, should they work this way?

Humm, how to phrase the answer. I think that the answer is that it is supposed to work this way but map makers are also supposed to put doors on both walls so it is clear what is up. I do not have a definitive answer but I suspect this is just for pragmatic reasons. The desire would be for map makers to have doors on both walls so everything seems correct.

Ideally, the mapper manually checks every pair of adjoining walls and gives them both doors (or not), but on a crowded urban map this can mean many hundreds of pairs.

Yep, This really only applies to the case where you have single buildings created by adjoining multiple buildings together. So even on a crowded urban map that will not be that many buildings where this is needed. Think about it if you go down town where the shops are in a row and share walls the vast majority do not have doors between them. We are expected to go out onto the side walk and then go enter the next store from the street thought its front door.

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This really only applies to the case where you have single buildings created by adjoining multiple buildings together. So even on a crowded urban map that will not be that many buildings where this is needed.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

You're funny.

Next time, before you assert how easy something is, go ahead and build it yourself to find out just how 'easy' it is. ;)

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LOL yeah I have to chuckle with JonS on this one. Door issues between adjoining buildings is "fun" to say the least. Door alignments are not always even and you don't always want them and independents don't have the option....

What I "try" to do is if I have adjoining buildings and I want a pass through I will if possible completely delete one wall and put a door on the other. I then do not have to worry about alignment perspectives.

In both Venafro and Frosty Welcome I tried to supply a fair amount as I would expect combatants would find some means to mousehole in urban fighting. This also assists the defender in that they don't give away access routes with a bunch of demo charges going off....

Still when you start assembling even a small urban map it gets very tedious.

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I respectfully submit, from a player's point of view, having 2 misaligned doors is better than having a wall with and a wall without... Seriously, it never entered my mind that soldiers could run through walls without doors (in CMx2). Is it really supposed to be this way?

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I have utmost respect for all the map and scenario makers out there, and I don't begrudge a few misaligned doors.

In practical terms, though, what is the verdict: if two adjoining buildings have a mismatch (one wall with a door, one without), is there a functional door or not? And does it function from one side or both?

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I have utmost respect for all the map and scenario makers out there, and I don't begrudge a few misaligned doors.

In practical terms, though, what is the verdict: if two adjoining buildings have a mismatch (one wall with a door, one without), is there a functional door or not? And does it function from one side or both?

as long as one building has a door it is considered to have a path. Door locations do not change even in eliminating a wall so if you take a couple buildings, butt them up to one another, delete all the walls and then tell your infantry to move through it, you will see some very interesting.."choices"

Basically in the computer's terms as soon as you have the two buildings adjacent, their walls essentially intersect. If one of them says there is a valid path, it is valid in both directions. Ignore the visual and try to see how the computer perceives it. Walls, doors etc don't exist per se. It sees intersections of lines and breaks. adjacent buildings are a line and the door is a break in the line. Doesn't matter which building created the break, the break exists for both now.

It really is worth spending some time in the editor. You begin to be able to visualize the design aspects of buildings. For example, I thought I had this really good idea to knock out opposite walls of a building and plant an AT gun to shoot through it. Set it all up, but the gun could never get LOS on a tank. I played around a little and realized the interior of a building always exists and blocks line of sight until the building completely collapses. The interior is abstracted and exists independently of the walls until the building is demolished at that level.

You can do some funky things like have a building with elevation 10 on one side and 80 on the other. If you can put a balcony on the 80 side that is in close proximity to ground level and send your pixeltruppen to the 80 level facing the balcony, they will stand on the balcony and then pop to the ground level essentially allowing you to enter on the 1st floor and exist on say the 8th floor. I just ran across this about a week ago. You can not re enter from the 8th floor. The pixeltruppen stay fixed to the ground level and can not enter the door through the balcony.

I respectfully submit, from a player's point of view, having 2 misaligned doors is better than having a wall with and a wall without... Seriously, it never entered my mind that soldiers could run through walls without doors (in CMx2). Is it really supposed to be this way?

I personally prefer eliminating one of the walls, just more visually logical to me.

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yeah, my understanding is:

wall + wall = no go

door + door = go

wall + door = go

Or, mathematically, where 0 = wall and 1 = door:

0 + 0 = 0

1 + 1 = 2

0 + 1 = 1

... and any result over 0 allows a transit.

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This really only applies to the case where you have single buildings created by adjoining multiple buildings together. So even on a crowded urban map that will not be that many buildings where this is needed.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

You're funny.

Next time, before you assert how easy something is, go ahead and build it yourself to find out just how 'easy' it is. ;)

Ah, well sorry to offend. And I did not imply it was easy. I was just pointing out that not every wall between buildings needs doors.

My experience with map editing, which clearly is much less than yours, is that anything you need to do in the 3D view is *not* easy at all and it is very labour intensive. So I did not state this easy nor was it my intention to imply that it was.

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My take.

|= wall

+ = door

| no pass

|| no pass

+ pass

++ pass

|+ pass

+| pass

ANY door on any wall allows passage. Now, cycling through wall choices from inside an building is insanely mind-numbing. Especially because I can guarantee that you'll miss the "no wall" option the first time through. 18 clicks per cycle? Per wall. And the camera placement is CRITICAL.

If you see a "wall" on your side, check the other side. If there's a door on the other side, then obviously the "wall" on you side isn't really a wall. It's just some wallpaper to hide the door. In the hectic nature of combat, these kinds of interior design details get missed by many soldiers.

Ken (Yes...I know I owe you a turn...)

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While we're at it... What about interior windows? Any effect on sighting?

Not sure what you mean "interior" windows. Are you referring to a window between buildings? If so i think it has no more impact (and no less) than for a unit adjacent to a window normally. However that is pure speculation on my part. I have never noticed much delay on a unit spotting a unit in a building once adjacent to it, whether they were in an adjacent building or outside.

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