Are Tanks shooting on the move still an issue?

[Pandur]

i dont think there is much to present against the claim that tanks on the move spot to well, and if we ignore that cause it got better, they for sure shoot to accurate while on the move. especially long shots(for moving) past like 75 to 100 meters are to accurate.

there have been numerous threads about it, i dont want to repeat all this.

i like the game, i think the engine by now got little bugs, few bad bugs if at all, i dont know any. representation of some system could be argued crude for 1:1 representation, but i like the game a lot.

still this tanks shooting on the move thing, is on of the the single biggest issues that remain right now, at least for me. there are others but this one influences a lot i think, more so then many other. and it got awfully quiet around it.

so what i want to know, do you still think this should be looked at "again" maybe it can be made better, now with more AI options the reason that the AI cant handle it may not be as strong anymore as it was, if that was the reason for deciding to leave it that way for the dev´s.

gn8

[Skwabie]

my abrams usually scores when on the move.. but not as many as i'd like.

my tiger... uh don't do too well at all. unless it's close to shotgun range or extremely lucky.

[sburke]

so what i want to know, do you still think this should be looked at "again" maybe it can be made better, now with more AI options the reason that the AI cant handle it may not be as strong anymore as it was, if that was the reason for deciding to leave it that way for the dev´s.

gn8

AFAIK there have been no options added that would alter BF's previous reasons for this being the way it is. I.E the AI dies not have any routines yet for halting and firing per se.

Still something on the to do list, but a smarter AI as whole I think is probably the first thing on Steve's wish list. It is also a huge time sink hence their not putting it the front burner.

My answer, I defer to Steve as I don't know s**t about what it would take

[Vanir Ausf B]

What sburke said. Plus, I don't think it's a major problem. Yes, firing accuracy is not as crappy as in reality, but it's still pretty crappy.

i dont think there is much to present against the claim that tanks on the move spot to well,

Tanks are terrible at spotting while moving, particularly when buttoned and when the target is not in its forward arc. Maybe not terrible enough, but that is probably more true of all unit types rather than anything specific to tanks. I have seen infantry teams moving at Quick speed spot enemy tanks sitting motionless behind bocage 1 km away.

[Pandur]

AFAIK there have been no options added that would alter BF's previous reasons for this being the way it is. I.E the AI dies not have any routines yet for halting and firing per se.

i meant like there is more fine grained control for the scenario designer. since cmsf AI orders have doubled per group and now triggers allow for more control also.

what i meant was that the designer can handle the tanks better with more fine control to keep them from doing to long dashes and so.

yes there are no special AI routines new to the game but i think the AI plans have come a long way since cmsf which give a similar effect in a way.

but i see the thing is no longer any priority it seems. thats what i wanted to find out.

[MikeyD]

Russian front vehicles don't simulate those American gyrostabilizers so the proportion of 'lucky shots' on the move appears to have dropped dramatically. They're not entirely gone, though, because firing during slow movement can be considered as 'abstracting' the halting and firing process.

[Michael Emrys]

...firing during slow movement can be considered as 'abstracting' the halting and firing process.

Just for the record, on a couple of occasions, I have observed my own tanks given a Slow movement command actually stop and open fire, then resume movement, all without any intervention from me. I don't know if this happens with AI controlled tanks and it doesn't always happen with mine, but I was impressed by seeing it happen at all.

Michael

[gcrain]

My tanks can't hit a thing using Fast move. Why can't the AI use the Hunt command?

[Kauz]

My tanks can't hit a thing using Fast move. Why can't the AI use the Hunt command?

Good point.

Driving, spotting, stopping, shooting, killing, driving till next spot.

The "Hunt" order in CM:RT works only like the "contact" order of CM:BB

I am not very happy with that

[Redwolf]

Russian front vehicles don't simulate those American gyrostabilizers so the proportion of 'lucky shots' on the move appears to have dropped dramatically. They're not entirely gone, though, because firing during slow movement can be considered as 'abstracting' the halting and firing process.

Yes, I think Steve declared it to be an abstraction at some point. And that is good because without such an abstraction the game would unrealistically punish movers. You wouldn't be able to represent the short stop shots directly but you cannot omit them either.

However, the OP observes the more general situation around ambushes in CM. The movers spot the attackers pretty quickly, especially the sighting of towed guns is questionable, and they return too accurate fire too early.

As you say I don't think that this should be looked at simply from the standpoint of how accurate tanks on the move fire. The whole package has to be considered. My pet thing in this complex continues to be a lack of zeroing in, and preserving the range knowledge gained, on part of the ambusher. CM games lose the zeroing in information too easily starting their rangefinding from scratch as if they just arrived. But again that is just one piece in the puzzle.