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ACCUSED OF GAMEY TACTICS??


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Well I'm involved i a game right now and i've jsut been informed that he is highly pisswed at me because of a tactic i used

I consider my self extremely honorable but this went a bit far for me

the guy whacks my halftrack with a bazooka then gets mad because I use the crew who wernt cowering to route take out the zook and the mg that was pinning down and adjacent squad

IS this not fair guys or just plain smart play??

SS_PanzerLeader....out

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Use the search function SS - I think the group feeling came down on the "GAMEY" side of the fence when using crews like this.

Jon

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Quo Fas et Vino du Femme

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Thread title: crew-served weapon crews w/o small arms

Thread owner: M Hofbauer

Last post date: 11-05-99

Jon

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Quo Fas et Vino du Femme

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I dunno.. I fully expect any bazooka or 'shreck team unsupported by infantry to be taken out by the crew of the first vehicle it kills. Maybe not a halftrack crew, with its 2 guys, but anything larger will outgun the bazooka team, and is gonna be pissed. (and I heard somewhere that bazooka/mortar teams will have some sort of defensive small arms fire in the final, so they'd likely be able to deal with the HT crew)

Taking out the MG is perhaps a bit gamey, but unless it was pinned by someone else, or taken a lot of damage, your crew shouldn't have been able to do that. So it's hard to pin the blame entirely on the crew...

-John

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Thanks for the vote of confidence Teach :)

Addressing the search issue

, I did a search and I finally came up with a thread that dealt with crews-mostly referring to gun and mg crews, from what i interpreted form the thread the complaint was for excessive use of crews to take vls and do majorly unrealisitic actions- it was challenged quite intently but wa agree that using massive waves of crews in an assault was highly unrealistic> I cannot see any way where this situation is relative. The crew IMHO reacted in a bold manner to a bad situation ,...... they had the option of

A. while in good morale standing and having ammo .......running 40 meters into a building directly in front of them and trying to take out a 50 calibur mg that was already in bad shape- as it was being pummeled by mg fire from two tanks and a half track ; plus several infanty teams

or

B sitting there in the middle of the road and continuing to remain in the line of small arms fire and the occasional 50 cal burst

or

C Run when not broken and expose them selves to more than one line of fire from mgs

there morale isn't down I feel i did what anyone would reason there best coruse of action to be. i just cant see why they would throw down there weapons and say oops we better go now - taht is what morale is for sorry.

SS_PanzerLeader..out

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an easy solution to this is to make crew worth more alive than dead, perhaps they would be avaliable for the next scenario or whatever. most troops are first trained as infantry, than for a specialty rate like tank driver,gunner etc. if they have more training they should be worth more than a grunt. but since all is situational in combat, with this one can make a choice and take the consequences.

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SS_PanzerLeader,

I'm on your side in this. That was NOT gamey.

Crews carry a fairly high value, so if you lose 2 crew, points-wise, you lose more than if you had lost 2 regular infantry. Crews are generally pretty ineffective due to their lack of weaponry, but they're not totally toothless. Use them with caution.

In a campaign(operation) it would be wise to use the crews with even greater caution, since, if they survive, you could get a new vehicle for them, or repair the old one. Waste the crew and you lose that possibility.

Sten

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Guest John Maragoudakis

Why do some people think that crews are weak little poodle walkers? They are warriors dammit! They ride thier steel chariots into the hell of combat. I doubt that such soldiers will turn and run if they are well armed.

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SS, opinions aren't a democratic thing - you don't get to vote on them. Either you agree with someone, or you disagree. Your opponent thought your play was gamey. The thread I pointed out at 9:23 PM ET expands on the reasons for this, including CM design decisions, in great detail.

Your opinion is your own, - and to paraphrase what someone here said a while ago 'you are the foremost expert on your own opinion and honourability' - but I feel that this rabble rousing is a little unedifying for all involved.

Regards

Jon

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Quo Fas et Vino du Femme

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In that situation, sure, I'd go for it. With the MG under that much fire, sure, John's granny coulda taken it. So of course you rush her in. And if she bites it, no big deal. She can barely hold a walking stick, much less a rifle. But there are situations where it could be more gamey.

Let's say your elite 5 man tiger crew just bailed out, and the MG is taking quite a bit less fire. That crew is a fairly potent fighting force, and could likely take the half-supressed MG, but it's not worth the risk, you want all of those guys to survive until they can get back in a tank, unless you absolutely NEED to hold that spot of ground. The point system will likely go a fair way toward fixing that, but won't eliminate it entirely.

-John Hough

[This message has been edited by John Hough (edited 12-08-99).]

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Jon what on earth are you on about? democratic opinions>? rabble rousing ? I'm sure all the people posting here love to be referrred to as Rabble- nice!

I just took a bunch of bs off a player and asked what others thought of the situation and if they thought I had done something wrong> Yes so farit is nice to see that I'm not alone in whati consider perfectly fair. I consider my self very upstanding player as have numerous people I have played in cc2> I felt there should be some input to address this incident which is in what in fact we are getting. You actually seem to be the only one so far that thinks I should be lynched for my behavior.

Quote:

Your opponent thought your play was gamey. The thread I pointed out at 9:23 PM ET expands on the reasons for this, including CM design decisions, in great detail.

So what you are saying is because he thought it it is so? The post does not specifically address this situation I don't recall having a platoon of halftrack crewmembers storm allied Headquarters, while the rest of my stormtroopers stopped in at the gesthaus.

I tell you one thing if this is the worst thing that any opponent ever does to me in a competition I really think I could sleep at night.Your posts ar making me feel like I just broke 9 of your ten commandments - what the others were god only knows--

maybe I double parked my panzer

SS_PanzerLeader....out

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nah i don't think this was gamey, after all didn't the crews have mp-40's issued? like 1 per crew? and probably sidearms for each member. After all if your in a halftrack that a zook crew just wiped out, are you gonna run from them when they are 20 feet away and reloading for the next HT, or are you gonna be a might bit pissed off?

Remember the scene in SPR when the spw gets knocked out, and the crew rushes out? they weren't rushing out for the hell of it smile.gif

If the allied soldiers aren't gonna eliminate the crew exiting the vehicle, then it aint gamey. Germans had to use every available man, luftwaffa ground crews can be infantry, then Panzer crews without rides can be too.

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Guest Big Time Software

Bailed out crews are basically useless. If you try to use them for offensive purposes, 8 out of 10 times you are going to wind up with a bunch of dead, or panicked, crew members. Here are the reasons NOT to use them:

1. They are worth a lot of points.

2. If playing an Operation, you won't get back a vehicle if you lose the crew.

3. They are armed with pistols only, and that ain't a lot of FP!

4. All bailed out crews have a "!" rating already (forget if the demo has this). This means that if the unit panics again, it is INSTNATLY BROKEN or ROUTED. At this point you can basically kiss it goodbye

5. The "!" rating also means the unit is more likely to become Broken or Routed.

6. Limited intel does not apply to bailed out crews. So there is no ability to bluff the other guy into thinking it is something that it isn't.

Having said all that, using a crew offensively isn't gamey or necessarily dumb in limited circumstances. Basically if it bails out, and there is a choice target, with limited means of self defense, right nearby. However, I wouldn't go making a habit out of using crews for anything dangerous. The payoffs for the risk are pretty poor.

Steve

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JonS has a good point. We're all going to have different opinions on what's gamey. (And more often than we'd like, it depends on if we were on the recieving end of it or not. wink.gif)

To add my two cents, SS_PanzerLeader, I don't think the given situation was gamey. The moral of the crew is modeled. This, in some way, determine how it can and will react to surprises and extraordinary situations. In your case, with great valour.

Huron

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