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Anyway to Free Ourselves of the Time Limit?


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Title says it all: in quick battle mode, I was well on the way to implementing my Napoleonic strategy for victory against the perfidious Reds, when, right in the middle of a master stroke, BLAM!! I am summarily catapulted into the end screen, with the 'time limit reached' message explaining said rude interruption to my sneaky flank attack. What!? Outrage and frustration! Any way in all Christendom that we can rid of that pesky time limit?

Regards,

Apoll

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It can hardly have come as a surprise... I personally find that the AI struggles to last much more than an hour in most QBs, but that's under BN, and maybe the addition of triggers can push the survivability past the 2 hour limit...

Edit: Aha! looks like BFC already thought of that, if Oddball's recollection is accurate.

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Well, it takes what it takes, re time. Sometimes quick, sometimes not. But IMHO, always best to proceed carefully... if you don't want to walk your pixeltruppen into a mess. That's my view anyway. So, it seems locked...ok. I'll live with that then...

Apoll

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Well, it takes what it takes, re time. Sometimes quick, sometimes not. But IMHO, always best to proceed carefully... if you don't want to walk your pixeltruppen into a mess. That's my view anyway. So, it seems locked...ok. I'll live with that then...

Apoll

Caution's all very laudable, but most of the time, at least in WeGo (I appreciate it's not so easy in RealTime) if you're running out of time you were unnecessarily laggardly in at least one earlier phase. Personally, I have the most difficulty keeping my initial advance to first contact sprightly; once I've got some traction on the enemy positions, I can usually keep rolling at a fair pace.

Even with RT's triggers, I can't see how you can spend three hours attacking an AI opponent, though, unless you buy a lot of supply platoons; ammo is a prime limitation on combat endurance, for me. PTruppen are supposed to get into a mess; it's the manner of the support they receive once they've achieved that contact that determines whether it's the particular mess they're meant to get in, or if you've killed them for no purpose.

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Well, I seem to take an inordinate amount of time doing recon; I really like to know where the enemy's main effort is located (this is a probe/attack scenario). Perhaps I am taking too long? But I can't see how you can work out your plan until you know where the enemy is. I certainly don't like charging ahead and doing recon by fire unless I can avoid it. So I guess I am slow at the 'find em' bit. Maybe I should pause the game a bit more when thinking where to go; I play real time. I've only run out of a 2 hour block of time. Tell me something...the half or transparent/dimmed enemy location markers, which I see a lot of, represent what exactly? Sound of the enemy? Eyes on?

Apoll

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Well, I seem to take an inordinate amount of time doing recon; I really like to know where the enemy's main effort is located (this is a probe/attack scenario).

Are you the attacker? I assume so, since the AI doesn't have the patience to make an attack last more than an hour or so: either you wipe them out or they bust you wide open... :)

Perhaps I am taking too long?

Sounds like it.

But I can't see how you can work out your plan until you know where the enemy is.

Well, the pros who post say you can work out their best defense by analysing the terrain. If they do something different, that isn't their best defense, so it works to your advantage. So you're not having to scout the entire map, just confirm that your opponent has done what you expect a talented, or at least competent, OpFor commander would do. In the same analysis you're determining your best advance route, and if that isn't covered by the enemy, again, that's gravy and again, all your recon is doing is finding out what's on your favoured axis of attack. You need eyes either side of your main axis, in case of counterattacks and flanking positions, but your rooting out of the enemy only matters where he can influence your advance.

I certainly don't like charging ahead and doing recon by fire unless I can avoid it.

Recon by fire doesn't necessarily involve "charging ahead". It should be you that's doing the firing. It works particularly well against the AI, and less so against a human opponent with some self-restraint; the unit that exposes itself vs the AI can be in a mostly-protected location, and will probably survive. But even against a human opponent who elects to hold his return fire, shooting at probable locations can cause motion which can be detected.

Maybe I should pause the game a bit more when thinking where to go...

I know I'd be hitting the Pause button every 2 seconds if that was how I was playing the game...

Tell me something...the half or transparent/dimmed enemy location markers, which I see a lot of, represent what exactly? Sound of the enemy? Eyes on?

They're "tentative" contacts. Might be a sound, might be a glint of metal or a flash of movement, or just a marker where you once could see an enemy. I imagine they're a bear to keep track of in RT... Sometimes they're heart-stoppers in WeGo, when they pop up in your soft underbelly as you flick through units...

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Thanks Womble, good advice. I have, I think, taken the cautious approach a bit far, and not really done the 'where would the opfor commander have placed his troops' bit enough. Hmmm. Need to remedy that. Back to the practice QB map. I guess, where there is a village, the AI enemy is going to place his troops. Where there is a tree line, I can be sure there will be some troops in it. That sort of thing? One thing I have done is purchased much more artillery support for my pixeltruppen; so I can clobber those pesky guns that pop up and whack my half tracks with annoying regularity. One further thing if I may...I have not actually worked out how to lay smoke down for smoke capable mortars/artillery. I don't seem to see any way to select smoke in the fire order format. How does one call for smoke at a certain spot?

Thanks again.

Apoll

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Well yes..and luck! Tell me, if I spot a single Russian gun, a rifle squad and one heavy machine gun team in my recon, where can I go to find the likely organisations they belong to? I'd there something like an intelligence enemy orb at I can consult during a game that gives me the organisation of a rifle platoon, heavy weapons squad etc? If I see one squad, and I know that the normal soviet rifle platoon has three squads, then I can start looking for the missing units. I have a better chance of working what is in front of me by isolated bits of info. Thanks.

Apoll

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I am a big advocate of doing some thorough planning before you push GO! on your first turn. See my tutorials on planning at the links below.

As far as getting to know the enemy order of battle. I would stick to the game OBs provided in the force selection menu. If you use a historical one found on the internet, for example, it might not be exactly whats in the game OB.

However, a word of caution. A lot of players, and some scenario designers, like to cherry pick. In other words that single 76mm AT gun might not necessarily mean you are facing an AT platoon with 3-4 guns. Also, depending on the size of the scenario, that AT gun might just be cross attached to the enemy rifle company to support a local defense (though doctrinally this was rarely the case, usually the smallest maneuver elements were the company or platoon - when it came to task org, all you grognards put away your keyboards).

But you are thinking the right thoughts. Key weapon systems are a good indicator of the type and size of the element you are facing. Spend some time studying the OB in the Editor of take some screen shots that you can refer to while playing.

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They're "tentative" contacts. Might be a sound, might be a glint of metal or a flash of movement, or just a marker where you once could see an enemy.

Sound contacts are marked with a fully opaque marker with a "?", am I correct?

I should like to know how the game decides that a contact is not certain.

If you for example have a certain contact, then call down mortars on it, will the game make the marker transparent to show that the effects of the shelling is not yet known for sure? Or is it just if a contact has been there for a long time, will it be transparent to reflect that it might be obsolete info?

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All tentative contacts start out fully opaque. They will stay opaque if something continues to remain un spotted but attracting your soldiers' eye / ears. They fad over time. So the darker the contact icons are the more recently your guys have seen or heard something in that area.

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I guess, where there is a village, the AI enemy is going to place his troops. Where there is a tree line, I can be sure there will be some troops in it. That sort of thing?

That sort of thing. How those potential positions interact with your chosen route to the objective is more important though.

One thing I have done is purchased much more artillery support for my pixeltruppen; so I can clobber those pesky guns that pop up and whack my half tracks...

That's another lesson: don't send a half track where you wouldn't send a truck... Approximately. Once you've learned how to know where it's safe to maneuver vulnerable units (of which a half track is one; even a sniper can take out the driver from the right, plunging, angle), you can start to figure out when you can break those rules.

One further thing if I may...I have not actually worked out how to lay smoke down for smoke capable mortars/artillery. I don't seem to see any way to select smoke in the fire order format. How does one call for smoke at a certain spot?

Where you select the "weight" of the barrage (harrass, light, medium, heavy) there is a Smoke line, at the bottom. Not all systems come with smoke, and in those cases there won't be a Smoke line.

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If your strategy is to sneak all of your forces forward, one action space per turn, I can see how you might run into time issues.

:D

Exactly!! Hide and crawl one action square at a time. The excitement this leads to on finally spotting something is normally enough to involuntary lose control of the bladder. Hence the term prior to this event commonly referred to as piss-bored.

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All, thanks for advice. Particularly Womble and Scoutpl; will be sure to follow said advice. I think I probably need yo spend more time at the start figuring out enemy likely COA and my own plan: connect with my posts re the military appreciation process (MAP). I suspect this game is going to continually punish me until I get this bit right. Great learning tool I have to say! I wonder if it is really developing good MAP skills? Anyway, will do more practice until I am more confident. At this point, I am probably also bring too cautious, not wanting to loose even a single pixeltruppen. And yes, I like to sneak my whole force forward...at least until into the assembly area and up yo the LD. I re-read some of the great advice out there last night, particularly that Bill Hardenberger site. One way to approach this thing, according to him, is to position your main force ready to react once the recon has found the weight of the enemy effort, and then enact the plan. I guess that's my approach as well, but clearly I need to work on my recon speed and do my upfront analysis. Off to practice...and then, one day, might be ready to take on a human opponent. That would be a whole new level, I bet!

Regards,

Apoll

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... BLAM!! I am summarily catapulted into the end screen, with the 'time limit reached' message explaining said rude interruption to my sneaky flank attack. What!? Outrage and frustration! Any way in all Christendom that we can rid of that pesky time limit?

Here's some inspiration for ya, apoll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN4SWKZ3hDE

...from the film Bull Durham.

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ScoutPL, I am in the process of reading your excellent site which contains the advice on how to approach the planning and conduct of an operation. It seems to me that the key message of your site in this regard is that there are some tried and true principles to adhere to, but once an operation is underway, these should be interpreted as guidance, and not as slavish rules to follow, no matter what. Do I have that essential message correct? So...concentration of force is a principle of war, but if the opportunity to divide my force to conduct a flanking attack, with one part providing fire support, I am going to do it. In essence, it is a way of saying that no plan survives contact with the enemy? Which makes me wonder just how much hard and fast planning should be done prior to contact...

I'll keep reading your site....

Apoll

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ScoutPL....further to my last...because it seems to me that all the great commanders in history have one thing in common with regards to the principles of war...that they outfoxed their opponents by STEPPING OUTSIDE the doctrine, and thus doing something unexpected. Would you agree?

Apoll

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