AI snooze in QB

[womble]

So I saw something happen worse than usual in a QB today. For reference, it's the University of Hard Knocks map run the other way, with the attacker coming from the south, past the ridge then to the bridge, where the VL is.

The AI attacker (Assault, +40%, Mixed) had a Battalion of Armoured PzGren and a Battery of StuGs stiffened with a platoon of Panthers, versus my depleted Brit AInf Bttn plus a quartet of 17lbers. I forgot to make sure I picked 3 independent company-sized formations of infantry and 4 independent formations of armour, so it was a bit of a turkey shoot, because the AI assigned the armour to group 2 (left flank) and the infantry to group 1 (right flank). That's not the surprise.

The surprise is that the right flank only attacked with one company of dismounted rifle platoons. It didn't send in the support half tracks (this time - I had started the game once before, where the Stummels had been a PITA, but it crashed and I had to restart). Though it only took 20 minutes to stop the west flank tank rush and another 10 to hunt down the last few stragglers, I played through to the hour, expecting the infantry flank to steamroll my left with the other 2 platoons and half a dozen or more Stummel (should've bought some 25lbers - that would have been fun), but they just sat there. At Ceasefire on the hour, they were all in reasonable shape. Cautious, but unscathed.

I went and looked at the AI plan, and the AI had obviously chosen "Plan 2", based on the setup and the progress of the west flank, and all the orders were "start at 00:00, end at 1:00, so AIUI, the stationary PzGr should have been hustling towards the last order destination by the 60 minute mark, but they hadn't even stepped off their start line, apart from those first platoons.

Edit: Further thought - I've seen it do this before (not move sections of the force off the start line) but mostly that's been when the forces in the group wouldn't much benefit from moving up, or physically can't. ATGs and such, or infantry Flak. The PzGren battalion was a full battalion, and very nearly all of that is mobile, being kind of the point of the formation... which is why it stood out as a "Huh?" moment.

Sortof unrelated, but noticed at the same time: I've not played such a large and armour-heavy QB for ages, and I was a bit surprised to have only scored a few 10s of points for "Enemy Casualties" in spite of having killed 20 tanks and a company of infantry. I knew guns didn't count as anything extra for VP, but I'd thought that tanks did.

The map in question is: QB-131

[SlowMotion]

One thing I've been wondering about those exit times is: are they absolute time counting from battle start or are they relative time starting from the time when first units arrive to their target area?

So if you think an AI group arrives to some area after 10 minutes from battle start and you want this group to leave this area between 10 and 15 minutes from battle start, should exit times be 10 and 15 or 0 and 5?

The manual says "If you do not use Exit Before/After time variables then the progression from one Order to the next will be seamless."

Does this mean exit times should be all 0?

[Kuderian]

The exit before/exit after timer is absolute not relative. Allows easier coordination between different UI groups.

[womble]

Any reason a group, or part of it, would just ignore all the orders? One thing I did notice was that the first order transition included "passengers dismount", and none of the backfield idlers had. They were all still sitting in their Hanomags. Only the platoons that were (arbitrarily and by default) bought as dismounted seemed to attack; there were insufficient (possibly no) empty 251s to transport the number of squads that got mown down in a vain attempt to obey their first order.

[MarkEzra]

Sorry didn't see this thread until now... QB 131 will be checked out just as soon as I have CMBN completely up and running... A new PC is slowing down the process ... Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to get a look at it. I was alerted to this issue in the CMRT forum but will respond in this.

[MarkEzra]

RE: CMBN QB Map Large Rough (bocage-water-damage) QB-131:

Well The Bad News First. I carefully checked the AI Pathing orders for both Attacker and Defender and found no unduly long orders. Group 1 Defender counter attack movement orders respond 20-25 min Defender Group Stays in place on or around the Objective with an Ambush/dismount order and no movement order (more about this later!). The Attacker Group 1 has 1st movement orders within a minute and all follow up orders at one minute. Group 2 has it's start movement at 4-6 minutes and follow up orders at 1 min (more about this later!)

The Good News: While it is a completely functional QB Map made with the CMBN specs (wow have things changed since then!), I did find a small error in the Defender Plan 2 Group 2 setup. It was set to "Normal" and "No Dismount", Rather then "Ambush" and "Passanger Dismount". Sloppy, Yes but doesn't affect movement or times.

The Attacker had no such defects so if they aren't moving it's not due to their QB Map AI Pathing orders. I can only surmise that other aspects of the AI in game program (morale, ect?) play a roll.

I did fix the errors I noted and have placed the corrected map in the repository under CMBN Base Game/Maps/CMBN QB Map 131 Fix.

[womble]

RE: CMBN QB Map Large Rough (bocage-water-damage) QB-131:

Well The Bad News First. I carefully checked the AI Pathing orders for both Attacker and Defender and found no unduly long orders. The Attacker Group 1 has 1st movement orders within a minute...

Ah. That's Minutes and seconds then. My error.

The Attacker had no such defects so if they aren't moving it's not due to their QB Map AI Pathing orders. I can only surmise that other aspects of the AI in game program (morale, ect?) play a roll.

Well, it's a bit of a surprise that losing their first wave entirely stops the AI doing anything... Is there anyone else who might care to examine the actual game to see why the AI "gave up"?

Thanks for looking into this, Mark. Do you ever use the "seconds" part of the "after/before" settings? I can't imagine a situation where timing to the half-minute would be practicable in AI plans.

I did fix the errors I noted and have placed the corrected map in the repository under CMBN Base Game/Maps/CMBN QB Map 131 Fix.

[MarkEzra]

CMRT QB AI has heavy reliance upon triggers so the variable times used are considerable different than in previous game. It is an exciting time for QB's, but more work ahead as the game develops. QB Player input matters. I know, 'cause I'm a QB player, too