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Red Thunder worth the money?


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I think the quests in Red Thunder are actually quite cool. Love the Tiger boss at the end of the Bagration level. Also the scene where Rudel attacks the dragon while jumping out of his Stuka was EPIC! Shame the Stalin dragon only dropped a PPSh though.

BTW does anyone know where I can get a nude patch for the female partisans?

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Not Yes, but Hell Yes. And if Redwolf says it's worth the money, then you really know it is. (He hates everything)

But I do love me some Game of Thrones. Worth taking a few minutes from the current pbems to watch.

I think the quests in Red Thunder are actually quite cool. Love the Tiger boss at the end of the Bagration level. Also the scene where Rudel attacks the dragon while jumping out of his Stuka was EPIC! Shame the Stalin dragon only dropped a PPSh though.

BTW does anyone know where I can get a nude patch for the female partisans?

Yeah, that's all cool stuff, but where are the friggin Health meters in this game?!!?

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Food Supplies during long battles. Always. Typically some crackers a good wedge of Jarlsberg cheese. And if it goes really long, a short break on the patio for a cigar, typically with ice tea not alcohol. You have to think clearly when you hold the lives of pixeltruppen under your mouse clicker.

Crackers were part of the Wehrmachts so called Halbe Eiserne Ration, a ration wich was always carried by the soldiers in their gear. The Jarlsberg cheese, cigars, ice tea and patio were unfortunately not inculded.

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Well I am pretty wealthy and i could easily afford the game but I didnt get wealthy by wasting money on overpriced products.

It just doesnt feel there is any usefull substance added to Red Thunder. There is so much more to add to improve the game and make it more fun and impressive. Come on am i the only one complaining about the lack of substance?

Well, Mister Wealth, How about you give BF a few MIllion and I am sure they can manage to add them items you request into the game and maybe even a few more.

But sad to say, I doubt sells will go up much because of it, so don't plan on a return for what you give. :D

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I mean I have been readin the forums and the suggestion demanded by the community to be implemented but nothing important seems to have come true:

- Are aircrafts visible?

- Do the soldier animation behave more natural and less clumsy?

- Is there any cinematography at all? Intro into a campaign? Descitpion of objectives by a narrator? And so on?

- Any updates about the special effects? Turrets and parts of vehicles flying of when destroyed? Buildings loosing pieces and parts when hit? Rain? Snow? Trees falling down and objects getting crushed when driven over by a tank?

- Are vehicles and soldiers individual? Various faces for each soldier? Different turretnumbers and amount of damage to individual vehicles?

- Are the maps living? Civilians? Birds? Animals? Real living rivers running across the landscape? The map is not a piece of "land" in the middle of a pointless universe?

- Is there a meaningfull campaign? Do you feel that the decisions you make affect the course of further campaigns? Can you decide what units shall take part in the next battle like in Close Combat? Is there any strategic aspect to it?

- Are the doctrines of the axis and the allied taken into account? Soviet soldier routing when loosing the leader? NKVD kommisars overwatching the battles? German forces applying their Blitzkrieg. Order 227?

- Is there any weathereffect? Rasputitsa? Do vehicles and soldier get restriced in movements? General Winter? Do the German soldier freeze to death? The german weapons fail to operate in low temperatures?

- Do vehicles operate in their intended role? Amphibious vehicles going through water? Mine clearing vehicles clearing minefields? Ambulances recovering the wounded? Ammunition and foodsupplies during very long battles?

It just doesnt feel there is any usefull substance added to Red Thunder. There is so much more to add to improve the game and make it more fun and impressive. Come on am i the only one complaining about the lack of substance?

That's it? You sure there's nothing else you want to ask?

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Well I am pretty wealthy and i could easily afford the game but I didnt get wealthy by wasting money on overpriced products. To me Combat Mission Shock Force was like a 2008 Toyota Prius, Combat Mission Red Thunder is like a 2008 Toyota Prius with red paint.

I mean I have been readin the forums and the suggestion demanded by the community to be implemented but nothing important seems to have come true:

- Are aircrafts visible?

- Do the soldier animation behave more natural and less clumsy?

- Is there any cinematography at all? Intro into a campaign? Descitpion of objectives by a narrator? And so on?

- Any updates about the special effects? Turrets and parts of vehicles flying of when destroyed? Buildings loosing pieces and parts when hit? Rain? Snow? Trees falling down and objects getting crushed when driven over by a tank?

- Are vehicles and soldiers individual? Various faces for each soldier? Different turretnumbers and amount of damage to individual vehicles?

- Are the maps living? Civilians? Birds? Animals? Real living rivers running across the landscape? The map is not a piece of "land" in the middle of a pointless universe?

- Is there a meaningfull campaign? Do you feel that the decisions you make affect the course of further campaigns? Can you decide what units shall take part in the next battle like in Close Combat? Is there any strategic aspect to it?

- Are the doctrines of the axis and the allied taken into account? Soviet soldier routing when loosing the leader? NKVD kommisars overwatching the battles? German forces applying their Blitzkrieg. Order 227?

- Is there any weathereffect? Rasputitsa? Do vehicles and soldier get restriced in movements? General Winter? Do the German soldier freeze to death? The german weapons fail to operate in low temperatures?

- Do vehicles operate in their intended role? Amphibious vehicles going through water? Mine clearing vehicles clearing minefields? Ambulances recovering the wounded? Ammunition and foodsupplies during very long battles?

It just doesnt feel there is any usefull substance added to Red Thunder. There is so much more to add to improve the game and make it more fun and impressive. Come on am i the only one complaining about the lack of substance?

I don't mean this in a bad way, but you should leave and never come back.

This is not and will never be the type of game you are looking for...

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Well I am pretty wealthy and i could easily afford the game but I didnt get wealthy by wasting money on overpriced products. To me Combat Mission Shock Force was like a 2008 Toyota Prius, Combat Mission Red Thunder is like a 2008 Toyota Prius with red paint.

I mean I have been readin the forums and the suggestion demanded by the community to be implemented but nothing important seems to have come true:

- Are aircrafts visible?

- Do the soldier animation behave more natural and less clumsy?

- Is there any cinematography at all? Intro into a campaign? Descitpion of objectives by a narrator? And so on?

- Any updates about the special effects? Turrets and parts of vehicles flying of when destroyed? Buildings loosing pieces and parts when hit? Rain? Snow? Trees falling down and objects getting crushed when driven over by a tank?

- Are vehicles and soldiers individual? Various faces for each soldier? Different turretnumbers and amount of damage to individual vehicles?

- Are the maps living? Civilians? Birds? Animals? Real living rivers running across the landscape? The map is not a piece of "land" in the middle of a pointless universe?

- Is there a meaningfull campaign? Do you feel that the decisions you make affect the course of further campaigns? Can you decide what units shall take part in the next battle like in Close Combat? Is there any strategic aspect to it?

- Are the doctrines of the axis and the allied taken into account? Soviet soldier routing when loosing the leader? NKVD kommisars overwatching the battles? German forces applying their Blitzkrieg. Order 227?

- Is there any weathereffect? Rasputitsa? Do vehicles and soldier get restriced in movements? General Winter? Do the German soldier freeze to death? The german weapons fail to operate in low temperatures?

- Do vehicles operate in their intended role? Amphibious vehicles going through water? Mine clearing vehicles clearing minefields? Ambulances recovering the wounded? Ammunition and foodsupplies during very long battles?

It just doesnt feel there is any usefull substance added to Red Thunder. There is so much more to add to improve the game and make it more fun and impressive. Come on am i the only one complaining about the lack of substance?

I actually think Dee Yays comments have some merit, although I would analogize that if CMSF was a 2008 Toyota Prius, CMRT is a 2014 Toyota Prius in Red. There are definitely some real improvements in the CM2 engine since 2008, just like a 2014 Prius has some more features than the 2008 version. What I think Dee Yays is getting at is that he is more interested in improvements to the engine, as opposed to additional content creation (TOEs, Weapons, scenarios and campaigns). This is not the direction that Battlefront has chosen to go. I used to feel similarly, but I am starting to appreciate that there is also value in content creation as opposed to improving the engine. I think that from a economic perspective the ROI of improving the engine is not as great as content creation.

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.... What I think Dee Yays is getting at is that he is more interested in improvements to the engine, as opposed to additional content creation (TOEs, Weapons, scenarios and campaigns). ...

I think he fails to realise that most engine improvements cannot easily be sold without being packaged alongside new content - which is what BFC have done - and their model appears to be working.

He may be happy, or even prefer, to buy engine upgrades, but he may not be among the majority of customers.

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I actually think Dee Yays comments have some merit, although I would analogize that if CMSF was a 2008 Toyota Prius, CMRT is a 2014 Toyota Prius in Red. There are definitely some real improvements in the CM2 engine since 2008, just like a 2014 Prius has some more features than the 2008 version. What I think Dee Yays is getting at is that he is more interested in improvements to the engine, as opposed to additional content creation (TOEs, Weapons, scenarios and campaigns). This is not the direction that Battlefront has chosen to go. I used to feel similarly, but I am starting to appreciate that there is also value in content creation as opposed to improving the engine. I think that from a economic perspective the ROI of improving the engine is not as great as content creation.

I'm not so sure about that. They have improved the engine alot. What he is asking for is mostly cosmetic or related to unrealistic and arcadey campaign games.

Let's go through his complaints/wishlist again shall we?

- Are aircrafts visible?

A pure eyecandy request. It would add nothing imortant to the game. It would, however, take time to implement. Time that would be taken from other things that I would consider more important (and I'm one of the ones that have asked for visible aircraft before)

- Do the soldier animation behave more natural and less clumsy?

That depends, to me they feel very natural and not very clumsy.

- Is there any cinematography at all? Intro into a campaign? Descitpion of objectives by a narrator? And so on?

Is that really needed? I mean, sure it's nice the first time you watch it, but do you really need narration and cinematics in a combat simulation?

- Any updates about the special effects? Turrets and parts of vehicles flying of when destroyed? Buildings loosing pieces and parts when hit? Rain? Snow? Trees falling down and objects getting crushed when driven over by a tank?

More eyecandy that isn't important for most of the grogs paying big-bucks to play this game.

Sure, most would appreciate it, but it's hardly important to the game.

Also, AFAIK there is rain in the game. Buildings lose pieces (although the pieces don't show up) and tankers didn't run over trees in real warfare since the chances of losing a track or getting stuck were all too dangerous.

- Are vehicles and soldiers individual? Various faces for each soldier? Different turretnumbers and amount of damage to individual vehicles?

Soldiers have a number of faces. Enough to make them look different. Tanks and vehicls also have random gear all over them (soldiers too for the most part) so that's partially in.

Having different turret numbers and unique faces for each and every soldier is going to take far too much effort for far too little return.

This is a combat simulator, not a the-sims-do-combat game.

- Are the maps living? Civilians? Birds? Animals? Real living rivers running across the landscape? The map is not a piece of "land" in the middle of a pointless universe?

Maps are as living as they need to be.

Birds and animals wouldn't stay long once the bullets start flying.

Neither would civilians, no matter how much you might want to be able to simulate the genocide of a village.

Living rivers take years to make a mark. The water graphics move, and that's enough for a game that isn't about landscaping.

- Is there a meaningfull campaign? Do you feel that the decisions you make affect the course of further campaigns? Can you decide what units shall take part in the next battle like in Close Combat? Is there any strategic aspect to it?

No. And there is a reason for that.

This isn't an arcadey battle game. Campaigns in this is a series of battles fought over a few days.

It isn't like close combat where you have an extremely small force growing in experience over several years in a very non-realistic way.

Again, it's not a sims game. It's a combat simulator. If you're not here for the simulated combat, you might want to try another, more arcadey, game.

- Are the doctrines of the axis and the allied taken into account? Soviet soldier routing when loosing the leader? NKVD kommisars overwatching the battles? German forces applying their Blitzkrieg. Order 227?

Soldiers route when they lose a leader all the time in the game. Soviets or not.

German forces apply blitzkrieg tactics if YOU do so when playing with them (or if the AI plan is set to do so.)

Post battle court martials are not included in the game. Since, again, it's not a sims game, it's a combat simulator... you know... that simulates the combat, not the political aftermaths.

- Is there any weathereffect? Rasputitsa? Do vehicles and soldier get restriced in movements? General Winter? Do the German soldier freeze to death? The german weapons fail to operate in low temperatures?

Oh it rains sometimes. There's mud that vehicles can get stuck in. The amount of mud is dependant on the scenario design and the map.

If the designer wants it to be in the middle of rasputitsa, then it is...

Soldiers get restricted movement when moving over terrain that restricts movement. Vehicles too.

German soldiers are not freezing to death in the middle of the battles.

Because, you know, they didn't.

German weapons might fail to operate in low temperatures... but we won't know since THIS GAME TAKES PLACE DURING THE SUMMER!

So no, there is no general winter... in september...

- Do vehicles operate in their intended role? Amphibious vehicles going through water? Mine clearing vehicles clearing minefields? Ambulances recovering the wounded? Ammunition and foodsupplies during very long battles?

Yes, they operate in their intended roles.

Tanks shoot with their big guns and stuff.

There are no amphibious vehicles in the game.

There are no mine clearing vehicles in the game.

There are no ambulances in the game (and those didn't drive around in the middle of a battle anyway).

There is ammunition supplies in the game. Food supplies is pointless since battles can't last more than a couple of hours in the game.

But considering the fact that rhino tanks did clear hedgerows in CMBN, I'd say that if they do implement amphibious or mine clearing vehicles in the game, they will do what they were designed to do.

Now, was there anything else to add to those comments of his?

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WELL, we really should not pick on him.

There is a basic problem in that there are gamers which are caught up in the big named companies concept of what a game needs to be and then there is Wargamers which are caught up in a game that tries to protrey itself in a realistic manor.

He just does not understand that this is a wargamer's game, done by a small group of guys that are into wargaming themselves and that there is no way for what he is requesting to ever happen.

For wargaming is not a hobby that will ever pull in the volume of people to get a product he is wanting.

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It just seems odd that whenever these guys pop up claiming no knowledge of CM and ask if the game contains 'X', they studiously avoid any feature the game does contain but will ask about the most obscure stuff that it doesn't. Asks about soldiers freezing to death but somehow neglects to ask if individual bullet trajectories are tracked in realtime

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