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Would really appreciate if someone helped me understand this


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Ok here is the scenario: These are some of my units with I believe to be chain of command.

4Sqd A Team

1st Platoon HQ

F 2/401 GIR

This s my mortar team.

F Company HQ

2/401/GIR

1st Platoon HQ

F Company HQ

2/401GIR

So now, when I call up my Mortar team and F Company HQ to the Tree Line to try to drop some mortars it appears I have no LOS with F Company HQ giving orders. But, When I call up 1st Platoon HQ He can give the order but then so can the F Company HQ as long as the 1st Platoon HQ is there. I know this is probably simple but for the life of me I can not figure out how this works and for me to pull up the proper units to advance I would think is important for me to get. So if any of you kind souls can break it down for me in layman's terms I would be very grateful. Thank you...

P.S. FYI I am trying to drop 60mm Mortars which I believe can fire indirectly. I think ... lol

The Noob :)

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do you have a save so it can be looked at in detail?

No but it is the start of Task Force Raff campaign Tutorial. I can restart it and save it or being that I get the reinforcements in the first 5 min you can probably fire it up and and play the beginning. This is very baffling to me lol...

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No but it is the start of Task Force Raff campaign Tutorial. I can restart it and save it or being that I get the reinforcements in the first 5 min you can probably fire it up and and play the beginning. This is very baffling to me lol...

no problem, I'll try to take a look tonight and post what I can see relative to your question.

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It sounds like your Platoon HQ is within shouting distance of your mortar team but your Company HQ is not.

Your Company HQ will have access to the mortar if it is within shouting distance of the mortar OR if the platoon HQ (with it's radio) is within shouting distance of the mortar. The mortar unit can also use radios that are on jeeps or other vehicles - I think it needs to be within two action spots of the vehicle.

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Ok here is the scenario: These are some of my units with I believe to be chain of command.

4Sqd A Team

1st Platoon HQ

F 2/401 GIR

This s my mortar team.

F Company HQ

2/401/GIR

1st Platoon HQ

F Company HQ

2/401GIR

So now, when I call up my Mortar team and F Company HQ to the Tree Line to try to drop some mortars it appears I have no LOS with F Company HQ giving orders. But, When I call up 1st Platoon HQ He can give the order but then so can the F Company HQ as long as the 1st Platoon HQ is there. I know this is probably simple but for the life of me I can not figure out how this works and for me to pull up the proper units to advance I would think is important for me to get. So if any of you kind souls can break it down for me in layman's terms I would be very grateful. Thank you...

P.S. FYI I am trying to drop 60mm Mortars which I believe can fire indirectly. I think ... lol

The Noob :)

Okay I think Pak 40 is correct. For you to be able to use the mortars in direct fire mode, the unit calling for fire must have communications with the on board firing unit. (I specify on board as off board arty is a different animal). I believe if we were to have a screen shot, your initial placement would have the mortar unit out of communication with either 1st pltn HQ or F Co. HQ. There is a way to check your status, but you need to become versed in the C2 section in the lower left of the UI panel.

Select the mortar unit. In the lower left hand section you will see the current C2 status of it's chain of command. It actually reflects a couple things so it is important to know what each level represents. If the 1st pltn link is red, it means the mortar has no C2 to 1st pltn HQ. If the F Coy link is red it means 1st pltn HQ has no link to F Co. HQ. F Co. HQ could be sitting right next to the mortar and it would have no bearing on those links or whether F Co. could call fire from the mortar. If the mortar can communicate to F Co. HQ , the HQ can call in direct fire. Now here is the little tricky part. In that UI panel you have various icons representing your C2 link. They can be radio, visual, distant visual or audible. If F Co. HQ is right next to the mortar you will see the mortar has a visual C2 link, you just don't know to what. If you look at the 1st pltn and F Co links they are both red. What the icon is telling you is that you have C2 to a nearby HQ in it's chain of command despite the overall C2 links in the company being shot to hell. Now if you move 2nd pltn HQ over next to the mortar you will see it can now call for indirect fire using that mortar, however there is no icon for C2 showing as 2nd Pltn is not in the mortar's chain of command. In that particular case you just have to make sure you move the unit close enough to insure it can communicate. Generally if I have to resort to that I want that unit within an action square of the mortar.

Now move the 1st Pltn HQ over so that the link to 1st Pltn goes green (it doesn't have to be right next to the mortar, it just has to be able to establish communications) and move F Co to be sure it has no means of linking to 1st Pltn other than by radio. Once the link to 1st Pltn goes green and the link to F Co. HQ is green, F Co. HQ though out of LOS now has a means of communicating back to the mortar through 1st Pltn HQ. F Co HQ or 1st Pltn HQ are now capable of calling in direct fire. Does that all make sense?

My suggestion is to play with this scenario a bit. Ignore the actual play, you can always restart. Move the two HQs around to put them into LOS in different combinations with the mortar and watch the UI panel. You needn't have to wait through the whole 60 seconds just hit that red button to see it in each command phase. A few minutes of that and I think you will have a much better picture of how the visual icons and the Unit C2 link indicators give you a perspective on your unit's relationships. It is worth the time to really understand that portion of the panel in detail.

As you play the game more you will see the importance radios can have in getting around some c2 issues. When developing an attack plan and you know you will need to call in arty resources, verify that you know beforehand HOW you are going to establish that comm link. It really sucks when you have an attack going in and it is time to call in a mortar strike and you left the mortar with no radio link to the command net. :P Been there, done that.

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<edit> never mind. I see sburke's post now. It came through while I was typing my question. I will have to read this about five times to really absorb it. Lots going on here. I had no idea about the colors on the C2 links and what they meant. What do you mean by this statement:

F Co. HQ could be sitting right next to the mortar and it would
have no bearing on those links
or whether F Co. could call fire from the mortar. If the mortar can communicate to F Co. HQ , the HQ can call in direct fire.

If F Co. HQ is sitting right next to the mortar team, then it should be able to communicate with it, and be able to call in fire, no?

By the way, is this the same sburke that frequents Endgame in Oakland? If so, I go there too, I go to 3rd Sundays too, I just haven't been in a while.

-=Jeff

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<edit> never mind. I see sburke's post now. It came through while I was typing my question. I will have to read this about five times to really absorb it. Lots going on here. I had no idea about the colors on the C2 links and what they meant. What do you mean by this statement:

F Co. HQ could be sitting right next to the mortar and it would
have no bearing on those links
or whether F Co. could call fire from the mortar. If the mortar can communicate to F Co. HQ , the HQ can call in direct fire.

If F Co. HQ is sitting right next to the mortar team, then it should be able to communicate with it, and be able to call in fire, no?

-=Jeff

Yes - but note it has to be in range to directly communicate. This is not directly a C2 issue in the sense of establishing comms through the chain of command. It is essentially a guy in authority getting in your face and saying "do this".

By the way, is this the same sburke that frequents Endgame in Oakland? If so, I go there too, I go to 3rd Sundays too, I just haven't been in a while.

-=Jeff

no, not even sure what that is. :P

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Got it.

Endgame is an excellent boardgaming/miniature/wargaming store in Oakland. Every 1st and 3rd Sundays they have wargames day. A club full of grognards gather and play face-to-face military boardgames. Mostly GMT games, Combat Commander:Europe and its expansions is one of the favorites. You should definitely check it out.

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In addition to Sburke's tips,

in the setup of any battle, you can move your forces around in the setup zones. You can experiment with the C2 status of all units by moving the units near or away from each other. The changes in C2 will be shown in the info panel.

Also, I'm not sure if this was mentioned, any leg unit with a radio will not be able to use it's radio while it is moving. Therefore it will lose C2 temporarily while moving. Radios in WWII are also finicky and unreliable - this is somewhat modeled in Combat Mission. They don't work 100% of the time. It seems kind of random.

There are also some quirks in the C2 system regarding mortars - I posted these in an old thread:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=108440&highlight=mortar

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As far as i understand it Antmf is trying to order the following fire mission:

C Coy HQ -> orders -> Mortar team

with the Plt HQ not beeing in contact with the C Coy HQ.

But IIRC calling on map mortars from C Coy HQ would only the following way:

C Coy HQ -> orders -> Plt HQ -> orders -> Mortar team

with the Plt HQ beeing in contact with the C Coy HQ and the Mortar team

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I just started the first Task Force Raff mission myself. When the first reinforcements arrive, the platoon, two Shermans, and a Mortar group, none of them are in communication with each other. They are all standing right next to each other, yet all their C2 lines in their details have a red circle next to them.

What is going on here? Why are they immediately out of communication with each other when they arrive, please?

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Antmf,

It works kind of like how it works in real life. To request an artillery barrage from an on board asset, the spotting unit needs to be within shouting distance (about 50m or less). If the distance is greater than 50m then both the spotting unit and the mortar unit need radios to communicate. Since mortar units don't carry radios organically, they need to be within shouting distance of a unit that does or within a couple of action squares of a jeep or halftrack that does have a radio.

Radios also operate by networks. For example 1st Battalion net will be different than 2nd battalion net. I don't think radios will work across nets.

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I just started the first Task Force Raff mission myself. When the first reinforcements arrive, the platoon, two Shermans, and a Mortar group, none of them are in communication with each other. They are all standing right next to each other, yet all their C2 lines in their details have a red circle next to them.

What is going on here? Why are they immediately out of communication with each other when they arrive, please?

C2 is only to the chain of command, ie. The squads in the platoon should have C2 to it's platoon leader. The platoon leader should have C2 to it's Company HQ if it's on the board and neither unit is moving, or possibly they will be within sight of each other.

The tanks will be in C2 to it's platoon leader or HQ that is above it, if there is one.

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they need to be within shouting distance of a unit that does or within a couple of action squares of a jeep or halftrack that does have a radio.

This is, by far, the simplest way to do it. Group all your on board assets together and park any radio-equipped vehicle in the middle of them (within 20 meters). Every HQ and FO on the map will be able to call them in, even ones out of C2 (which is not realistic but that's how it works).

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C2 is only to the chain of command, ie. The squads in the platoon should have C2 to it's platoon leader. The platoon leader should have C2 to it's Company HQ if it's on the board and neither unit is moving, or possibly they will be within sight of each other.

The tanks will be in C2 to it's platoon leader or HQ that is above it, if there is one.

What I am seeing in this scenario when the first reinforcements arrive is ALL the reinforcements have red dots next to their chain of command list. None of the reinforcements have any connection to anything, not even the squads to their platoon leaders.

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