herr_oberst Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Early advice on battle techniques in Red Thunder? Assuming you want advice on how to win? Don't fight Bil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Bil, I don't know what sort of defense you're talking about, but a Russian SMG company vs two platoons of Landseren strike me a a very poor force ratio for Ivan, but maybe I'm wrong. Am sure the exact nature of the map will figure heavily in the outcome. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 John, Ken's force is a 1943 SMG Company of three platoons, plus one extra platoon, just because. He has a good force mix I would say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Alte Fritz Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 John You are right. It would be interesting to see the recent AAR replayed using a number of different German tactics. One option might be to buy more artillery, TRP and some fortifications and then use the Blau objective as a killing ground and only defend the Gelb and Rot objectives. Place a line of defending infantry outside and on the near side of Blau village so that it covers it by fire, armour in over watch. The aim would be to let the Soviets assault the village, halt them in it by MG fire and then plaster it with artillery. Soviets have less fire power at range so cannot win the fire fight, need to bring up armour to achieve this but risk losing the armour battle as advancing against hull down stationery German armour. Rot and Gelb objectives are in open ground so can be defended in the same way, the issue here is where to stop the attacking Soviet infantry so that you have time to zero the artillery in on them. Minefields, wire and other obstacles can help the MGs define a stop line which can then be attacked by artillery. All this depends on the point value against killing value of the artillery and being able to catch the Soviet Infantry with that fire at stop lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 ...stationery German armour. Is that a paper tiger? I honestly mean no mockery. I just love it when typos (we all make 'em) work somehow other than the writer intended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Teacher Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Tactics 101 - 1/ Shoot straight 2/ Shoot the enemy 3/ Use as much Arty, mines and machine guns that you can get to pin the enemy and then repeat the 2 steps above. 4/ Read up on German / Soviet accounts of the war and thank God you never have to face war like the Eastern Front during WWII. 5/ Repeat all the above 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Alte Fritz Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is that a paper tiger? I honestly mean no mockery. I just love it when typos (we all make 'em) work somehow other than the writer intended. No offence taken. I was actually referring to the Sdkf.7921 Kartonersatztiger of early 1944. This very rare machine was originally developed for use in the desert but was deployed as a prototype to the Eastern Front using the Pappmache armour system and 75mm PAK Luftgewehr but came unstuck (literally) when it rained. It used the "Buntstift" camouflage system which was well liked by the troops but was very time consuming to apply. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Tactics 101 - 1/ Shoot straight 2/ Shoot the enemy 3/ Use as much Arty, mines and machine guns that you can get to pin the enemy and then repeat the 2 steps above. 4/ Read up on German / Soviet accounts of the war and thank God you never have to face war like the Eastern Front during WWII. 5/ Repeat all the above Or, use the The Four Fs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Bah! 4 f's? I've got one BIG F for you, Bil! Yes, we're battling. While Bil dances and prances with his silly F's, I will skip right to the LAST one: FINISH!!! And by "Finish", I mean "Attack"! And by "Attack", I mean "Kill all his men no matter the cost"! And by "Kill all his men no matter the cost", I mean "Finnish". Yes, suomi-style, or sumo-style, whichever works best. The woods are echoing with the sounds of rapid-fire submachinegun bursts! We will post this...sometime. I have ensured that our battleground has been properly consecrated. Yevgeni volunteered for the honor. Bare chested, like a veritable Putin, he resolutely strode into the fascist bullet streams! His example has motivated my men. For him! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c2yeung Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Are you guys saying fighting in the woods is worse in RT than in other modules? If so, how so? My past experience tells me the casualty ratio is about 4 to 1 in woods. The defender has the advantage of firing first. Hopefully, the flamethrowers will help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have a question, will we see the Ppsh41 used with German Infantry.. I know they picked up many as they were better in some ways then the Mp40 (CQB). So would it be normal to see some squads with the Mp-40, Ppsh41, and Stg44? as well as the usual K98 and MG42's? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Are you guys saying fighting in the woods is worse in RT than in other modules? If so, how so? My past experience tells me the casualty ratio is about 4 to 1 in woods. The defender has the advantage of firing first. Hopefully, the flamethrowers will help. So far, what we've seen in public of the performance of Russian SMG teams suggests that the casualty ratio is 4:1 or better in favour of the Assulting Soviets when facing "normal" German teams with 1 SMG, some Kar98s and maybe an LMG. With the Germans in woods. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have a question, will we see the Ppsh41 used with German Infantry.. I know they picked up many as they were better in some ways then the Mp40 (CQB). No, we will not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 c2yeung - "If so, how so?" Russians have the PPsH submachinegun. They get lots of them. The thing is a beast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 c2yeung - "If so, how so?" Russians have the PPsH submachinegun. They get lots of them. The thing is a beast. This is with the small, 32-round clip (but you get the idea): For those who have never seen vids from The Professional Russian, you owe it to yourself to do so. He's incredibly entertaining to watch and demos tons and tons of gear from WWII to modern. That's including a Stuart and a Hellcat! His YT channel is: https://www.youtube.com/user/FPSRussia Stuart: Hellcat: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 This is with the small, 32-round clip (but you get the idea): That's not a clip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Cut "clip" and paste "mag." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Macisle - sure FPS Russia is fun. But he is not over the top. Try Carnik Con, AR-15 vs AK-47 Solved Once and For All. Now that's over the top. Cheers... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Macisle - sure FPS Russia is fun. But he is not over the top. Try Carnik Con, AR-15 vs AK-47 Solved Once and For All. Now that's over the top. Cheers... Thanks, JasonC. I gave CarniK "a shot," but...well...I found myself wanting to kill him after approximately 20 seconds and had to fast forward through most of it. I'll have to go with the Professional Russian for regular guy cool, with a dash of crazy. And of course, just for fun. If I want something truly information-rich, I'll read one of your excellent forum posts. I enjoy them a lot! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Well, you have to get to the section where he proves an AK-47 absolutely will not be stopped by a ham sandwich... Enough said. That's for over the top comical, as mentioned. If you want cool, there are Colion Noir, Kirsten Joy Weiss, and the grand daddy of them all, Hickok 45... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have a question, will we see the Ppsh41 used with German Infantry. It seems BFC research on the topic places most German PPSh to the north and in (relatively) limited numbers. The same thing happened with PPS-42 on the Russian side (the game's now got PPS-43). When they get around to visiting Leningrad area then the likelihood of both those SMGs appearing goes up. On the topic of how to play the game, PPSh is a murderous beast BUT the units go through their ammo loadout like wildfire. That tends to make the SMG units very nearly single-use. They take their initial objective then they're a spent force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 My advice on battle techniques? Learn what you can from the Masters with the proven track record. Study tactical doctrine from different theoretical viewpoints. Learn everything you can about the likely equipment and soldiers you will have at your disposal. And practice, practice, practice (i.e. train, train, train). A good commander can take any token force on any given terrain, apply his knowledge and experience and if not win, at least make his enemy pay dearly. It very rarely comes down to who has the most submachineguns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Alte Fritz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I think it has to be recognised that the Eastern Front and in particular the period and location chosen by BF for CMRT (Operation Bagration) leads you to a certain number of unique scenario types. We have to consider the Soviet Assault battle - a lifting barrage followed closely by heavy tanks and assault infantry. The Penetration Battle - Soviet Infantry and Armour teams operating in the rear part of German defences against counter attack Armoured forces. Soviet Exploitation by Armoured Forces dodging round German fixed defences and chopping up Panzer units sent as strategic reinforcements Soviet Bridgehead assaults and or defence German Infantry defence with open flanks. The least likely battle the armour meeting engagement is in fact the least likely battle to happen during Bagration. Force levels and make-up, tactics and operational art are quite different for the Soviet forces so Soviet tactics need to be studied, the boks sold by Battlefront are a good start as it TM-30-130 and the Soviet General Staff Studies on Bagration and Lvov (and Kursk for defence) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Alte Fritz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What Infantry AT weapons do the Soviets get, it is not listed on the BF webpage for RT? In CMBB they got the RPG-43 and its replacement the RPG-6 would be in service by June 1944. This could be used against tanks as well as infantry due to its fragmentation effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 What Infantry AT weapons do the Soviets get, it is not listed on the BF webpage for RT? In CMBB they got the RPG-43 and its replacement the RPG-6 would be in service by June 1944. This could be used against tanks as well as infantry due to its fragmentation effect. From what we've seen it's pretty much "AT Rifles" (maybe bazookas, but they might not be until Lend Lease) I think. The RPGs are, presumably in the same way as grenade bundles, PanzerWurfMinen, Gammon Bombs etc., abstracted into the "Close Assault" mechanism that lets infantry have a chance against armour when they're only listed as having grenades. Wasn't Russian policy mostly to have enough armour around to fight armour with armour, and not have the gropos have to worry about killing enemy tanks on top of having to worry about not getting killed by them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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