Do tank pivot speeds need quickening up?

[Odin]

Man... that is awfully painful. Reminds me why I only do real time, coz you can immediately issue the reverse command...

I wish I could but my love for action replay is too strong

[John Kettler]

Vanir Ausf B,

I've seen quite a few pics of AFVs with gun barrel hits, but that King Tiger twisted steel footage is in its own league altogether. There are cases where a damaged muzzle portion was sawn off overnight and the tank carried on, but this would be quite the project, starting with the position from which the sawing would have to be done!

Macisle,

The antitank gun/field gun pivoting and maneuvering issues are getting addressed. Steve has said so himself, though he has drawn the line at doing such things with the Pak 43 and similar monsters. They're not going anywhere.

Regards,

John Kettler

[A Canadian Cat]

Agreed, a lot of what is going on there is bad TacAI, which is why I suggest an easy fix would be to stop tanks rotating their hulls to fire at infantry.

Yeah but that happens sometimes with tank vs tank engagements too. A better solution is what the TC would probably do in real life - tell the driver to stop turning then the gunner is ready to aim an fire and then get the driver turning again while the next round is loaded. That way they would get some rounds off.

[Redwolf]

I was just viewing the great Panther video which Destraex1 posted a link to, and it got me thinking about a minor gripe I've had with CM for some time now- tank pivot speeds are too slow IMO.

I've posted a link to a short Youtube video I've made showing the CM turning speed for two panthers and two stugs.

With each example I've turned the tanks 90 degrees. One on the spot and the other over a short move command.

I think both are too slow when you compare them to the real life examples shown later in the video. But I feel this is especially the case when turning on the spot.

I clocked the following CM pivot speeds:

25 seconds when turning on the spot and 11 seconds when on the move

By comparison I clock the real life Panther pivoting at 3 seconds when turning on the spot and the stug at 9-10 seconds (and I think the stug driver was taking it easy).

I know turning speeds in real life depend on the terrain conditions. But I do think tanks turn too slowly when not moving in CM. This is especially a disadvantage for assault guns. If they get flanked you can write off half a turn before they can turn 90 degrees to face the enemy. In battle conditions when life or death could depend on how fast a tank could turn to face an enemy tank or AT gun I think CMs 25 seconds is just too long.

Either way I still love the game, and I've only posted this minor gripe because I wanted to see if others feel the same way, and whether it is something Battlefront has looked at or is looking at?

I posted the same thread during CMBB times. The only difference is that I used Tiger videos, not Panthers.

The bigger problem IMHO is gun rotation and pivoting.

[bisu]

Agreed, a lot of what is going on there is bad TacAI, which is why I suggest an easy fix would be to stop tanks rotating their hulls to fire at infantry.

Yea IMO this is one of the major flaws in CM2 currently. I had a thread about it as well:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113999

It hinders the effective use of tanks not only in tank vs. infantry but also tank vs. tank encounters. There is no justification for such weird behaviour I could think about.

I'd be more than happy if BTF did somethink about it in CMRT..

[Michael Emrys]

I had an experience of this the other day. My tanks rotated their turrets to bear on the target, then the hulls began to rotate, throwing the turrets off aim. The turrets would correct to get back on aim only to be thrown off yet again as the hulls continued to rotate. This happened about three times and delayed open fire in excess of ten seconds while the gun was repeatedly relaid. I feel your pain.

Michael

[JasonC]

Michael - seconded. Humans are smarter. Very annoying...

[Amizaur]

This happened to me as well. Very annoing.

The logic of how tank hull rotates in response to various threats, when the gunner rotates to a target, end especially while final aiming & shooting needs to be improved.

[Dadekster]

I can say as a former driver myself that the only time you pivoted was when you were caught by surprise by something off to the side and you needed to help speed up the barrel movement to get it in the correct direction. Usually you stopped a bit short and the gunner took it from there. Especially if the electric traverse was out (which was often) as hand cranking took forever it seemed. Sheridan's were long in the tooth by the time I got to one.

I'd like to see the constant countering the driver and gunner do against each other stop as well if possible.

[MikeyD]

I used to work with an old WWII Pacific infantryman. After spending an insane number of years in the worst jungle of fighting in the pacific he finally 'pulled a Yossarian', decided he wanted to live to see the end of the war. So he got himself assigned to be mechanic on his company's sole Stuart light tank. Whenever he heard his unit was due to go on patrol he'd tell his CO that the Stuart had to be checked first. A slight grade, a patch of sand, a hard left turn and BOOM! Threw a track every time. "Gee guys, looks like I'm stuck here working on the tracks. Good luck with that patrol."

[Michael Emrys]

Whenever he heard his unit was due to go on patrol he'd tell his CO that the Stuart had to be checked first. A slight grade, a patch of sand, a hard left turn and BOOM! Threw a track every time. "Gee guys, looks like I'm stuck here working on the tracks. Good luck with that patrol."

And nobody ever caught on? :confused: I guess more likely they just didn't care. Patrolling in the jungle with a noisy tank to announce your presence sounds like it could be a non-starter only ordered by a greenhorn Lt. fresh out of OCS.

Michael

[Dadekster]

Anyone that works years in the Army and is still cranking on wrenches is doing something wrong already.

[Michael Emrys]

Yeah, the smart money is doing intelligence analysis in the Pentagon.

Michael

[Dadekster]

Yeah, the smart money is doing intelligence analysis in the Pentagon.

Michael

Oh please...don't get me started on the 'intelligent' people at the big house. They are probably the ones that decided the tanker and driver both need to do the aiming in this situation and this after spending 3 billion on R&D.

Reminds me of the old joke about NASA designing a pen that could write in a no gravity environment.

[Apocal]

And nobody ever caught on? :confused: I guess more likely they just didn't care. Patrolling in the jungle with a noisy tank to announce your presence sounds like it could be a non-starter only ordered by a greenhorn Lt. fresh out of OCS.

Michael

I read it as getting tasked with a dismount patrol and skating out by pretending you have maintenance to do and oops looks like you've discovered a real problem! Of course, that particular trick is older than Jesus and any leader worth his salt will see through it in an instant, so I'm wondering just how dumb they'd have to be to not only fall for it once, but repeatedly...

[Michael Emrys]

Reminds me of the old joke about NASA designing a pen that could write in a no gravity environment.

And don't forget it had to write in a vacuum as well. That's what cost millions of dollars. The punch line is that the Russians, faced with the same problem, used pencils. Stoopid bloody Russians, huh?

Michael

[acrashb]

Reminds me of the old joke about NASA designing a pen that could write in a no gravity environment.

I have one of those - it will also write underwater. Although I would not like to be holding it at that time, as I can't hold my breath all that long.

[Andrew H.]

And don't forget it had to write in a vacuum as well. That's what cost millions of dollars. The punch line is that the Russians, faced with the same problem, used pencils. Stoopid bloody Russians, huh?

Michael

At the risk of being pedantic, the joke is not actually true. For whatever reason, snopes won't let me link directly to the page, but it's worth googling "snopes" and "space pen" to get the (surprisingly kind of interesting) story. Highlights include: (1) pencils aren't great in zero-G because the tips tend to break off and graphite bits float around; (2) after the Apollo 1 fire, NASA tried to remove everything flammable from the capsule, including pencils; and (3) the "space pen" was developed by a private company at no cost to NASA.

[Dadekster]

At the risk of being pedantic, the joke is not actually true. For whatever reason, snopes won't let me link directly to the page, but it's worth googling "snopes" and "space pen" to get the (surprisingly kind of interesting) story. Highlights include: (1) pencils aren't great in zero-G because the tips tend to break off and graphite bits float around; (2) after the Apollo 1 fire, NASA tried to remove everything flammable from the capsule, including pencils; and (3) the "space pen" was developed by a private company at no cost to NASA.

Yep...it is indeed considered an urban myth.

It's still funny though seeing how I see versions of this still happening all the time on a smaller scale. Just go work in any office environment or military branch for a bit and wait for a manager or officer to show up. The fun starts when they attempt to re-invent the wheel.