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In all seriousness, does the Shtora system actually do anything other than make the tank look angry?

He reached out from the past!   

Wild. I was expecting a more dramatic recoil effect. But some of those Toyota trucks are really tough. Top Gear tried to kill one a few years back (note not exactly the same model but similar) with hilarious difficulty:

You can see why they would prefer to drive those turrets around on Toyota pickup trucks rather than the original chassis - they are damn near indestructible. :D

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I would like to see super heavy/armoured VBIEDs. The rebels in Syria often modify captured but otherwise useless BMPs as armored suicide VBIEDs, one of those for example ended the battle for Menakh airfield (yes, the same Menakh airfield that is part of the german CMSF NATO campaign) 35km north of Aleppo when it broke through the SAA defenses and destroyed the last building held by the defenders. Also seen quite often are up-armored trucks, capable of delivering up to 10 tons or more of explosives to a target and unstoppable by rifle fire.

Here is some footage of the BMP attack on Menakh airfield:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6d2_1376425382

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a75_1375719307

And some of the up-armoured super heavy VBIEDs:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=746_1401218881

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One of the beta testers found a pic of this beast! :D

53195_original.jpg

Heres some footage of that same beast in action in Mariupol

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c1_1402880773

here is the same unit Azov battalion with a truck mounted ZU-23

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=371_1403042771

i wonder if we'll ever see one of these in Black Sea ???? :D

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=15c_1403094663

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I'm curious, what kind of Active Protection Systems (hard kill systems) will be we see, and what weapons will be used to counter them?

The only weapon I can find capable of defeating such a system with decent chance is the RPG-30. However, even that, and similar, is supposedly defeated by "Trench Coat". Seems the weapon/armour iterations are becoming shorter.

Is the best counter to simply mass effects to empty or overwhelm the munition of the APS, or are there other solutions on the horizon?

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A quick note of thanks to ChrisND for his previews of Black Sea through its developmental stages. This title has considerable potential and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how it turns out...

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. I also think it is worth mentioning the forumites that have responded to this new level of access in mature and thoughtful ways. I seem to recall earlier days when people weren't quite as appreciative of new developments in these parts. It looks like a solid win for everyone to me, so, again, thanks to ChrisND and BF for letting us take a peek inside the development process at the works in progress.

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ChrisND, thx for the preview of the Russian and Ukraine forces. Too bad we won't see the VDV initially since I believe they would lead any kind of invasion of Ukraine but I understand the reasoning behind. We will hopefully see them in a future module.

I also thought that Russians would be fielding some T-80s but maybe they are out ot the Russian active service?

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ChrisND, thx for the preview of the Russian and Ukraine forces. Too bad we won't see the VDV initially since I believe they would lead any kind of invasion of Ukraine but I understand the reasoning behind. We will hopefully see them in a future module.

I also thought that Russians would be fielding some T-80s but maybe they are out ot the Russian active service?

However the Ukranians use the T80 even if they need to be pullled out of storage. So hopefully we will get them to counter balance the Russian T-90

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Yes, T-80Us and UKs in that column (seen in a related video). 4th Guards is only user. Russia is steadily withdrawing T-80s from service. All of the T-80BVs have been replaced in the South and West. Even 4th Guards is said to be slated to replace their T-80Us in the near future, so it is a bit of a question mark for the game.

4th Guards equipment is surprisingly old, as this train was also carrying BMP-2s and 2S1s. Perhaps they have not received modernized equipment yet because they will be the first to receive the next generation vehicles?

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I'm curious, what kind of Active Protection Systems (hard kill systems) will be we see, and what weapons will be used to counter them?

Off the top of my head: Trophy (or a Trophy-like system) for US, Arena for Russians, Zaslon for Ukraine.

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I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. I also think it is worth mentioning the forumites that have responded to this new level of access in mature and thoughtful ways. I seem to recall earlier days when people weren't quite as appreciative of new developments in these parts. It looks like a solid win for everyone to me, so, again, thanks to ChrisND and BF for letting us take a peek inside the development process at the works in progress.

I still remember meeting you in Oakland for that CMBN preview all those years ago!

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ChrisND, thx for the preview of the Russian and Ukraine forces. Too bad we won't see the VDV initially since I believe they would lead any kind of invasion of Ukraine but I understand the reasoning behind. We will hopefully see them in a future module.

Yeah it's too bad, I'd love to see the VDV as soon as possible but it's just too much artwork (and other work) for base game. I think the artists have already gotten grey hairs just managing with all the stuff we're putting in base game. :eek:

It's a very high priority for me to get them in as soon possible, preferably first module. Along with equivalent Ukrainian forces.

I also thought that Russians would be fielding some T-80s but maybe they are out ot the Russian active service?

It looks like the T-80 is going to be out of frontline service by the game's timeframe in 2017. At least with the Russian units that we're concerned with, since we're only concerned with units that would most likely be deployed to Ukraine, not the entirety of the Russian ground forces. So no T-80 for base game. For following module/packs, inclusion of second-tier or reserve equipment is a possibility.

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The problem the Ukrainians will have (as any country equipped with a particular country's weapons) is that the Russian will know every aspect of Ukrainian weapons - particularly their weaknesses. However, since the Russians don't export their current/good stuff, the Ukrainians will have poor intel.

Finland is another nation equipped with Russian tanks etc. Not sure about the Baltics and Balkans etc.

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I still remember meeting you in Oakland for that CMBN preview all those years ago!

That was a great day! One thing is certain, my admiration for you and Phil has only grown since then and I was very impressed then (and thanks again for taking the time to do that). Your twitchtv stuff reminds me of that day in some ways which makes me happy you are where you are.

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One thing I hope we get in Black Sea is paramilitaries. They've been an essential part of every conflict that Russia's been involved in since the breakup of the USSR (Georgia, Chechnya, and now Ukraine) and would add a lot to both realism and gameplay.

Now in Ukraine we even have paramilitary tanks...

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One thing I hope we get in Black Sea is paramilitaries. They've been an essential part of every conflict that Russia's been involved in since the breakup of the USSR (Georgia, Chechnya, and now Ukraine) and would add a lot to both realism and gameplay.

Now in Ukraine we even have paramilitary tanks...

I think that "paramilitaries" or insurgents will be in the first module, alongside airborne or marine troops perhaps.

It has been mentioned that the base game will have only US, Russian, and Ukrainian conventional army formations. I think this is enough to keep us entertained for six months while they create some suitable paramilitaries :)

Ill be staging some Chechen war scenarios if/when paramilitaries are released nevertheless, I'll likely copy the vignettes from Fangs of the Lone Wolf.

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