incomplete order of battle

[Mord]

Next release as in Red Thunder, or in the one after?

It's in this one, says so in the features list.

The thing is that this scenario has been downloaded nearly 200 times - and so far your review is the only one. Two other players have commented in the release thread - and fortunately very positively. But still that is only three out of 200.

LOL Hey man, you are in good company. Out of all the mods I made you know what one has gotten the highest praise? The "no music" one. All I did was take the wav, lower the sound to nothing, and clip it to like one second long. Took all of a minute to make. Got all kinds of feedback and responses. Spend months on a mod and get mostly crickets. It is what it is, I guess.

Mord.

[Barkhorn1x]

It's in this one, says so in the features list.

LOL Hey man, you are in good company. Out of all the mods I made you know what one has gotten the highest praise? The "no music" one. All I did was take the wav, lower the sound to nothing, and clip it to like one second long. Took all of a minute to make. Got all kinds of feedback and responses. Spend months on a mod and get mostly crickets. It is what it is, I guess.

Mord.

I for one LOVE your unit portaits. Great stuff.

...and Umlaut:

I have d/l and played some great user made scenarios. Problem is I usually - OK never - play them right after I d/l so I forget who made what. I'll bet I'm not alone. Sorry about that.

[Battlefront.com]

The thing is that this scenario has been downloaded nearly 200 times - and so far your review is the only one. Two other players have commented in the release thread - and fortunately very positively. But still that is only three out of 200.

Yup, that sounds about "right".

I can´t assume that silence is a positive review.

True, but you have more information than that. If you put up Scenario 1 and you got 200 downloads, then you put up Scenario 2 and got 50, then put up Scenario 3 and got 10... well, I think that's telling you something Likewise, if you get a steady amount it tells you that you're at least doing things well enough that 200 people feel it's worth downloading.

If I don´t know what players think of my scenarios I loose all motivation for releasing new ones. Simple as that.

And if a player can´t be bothered to write a comment or review, I accept that this is his choice. But he must on the other hand accept that this could mean that he won´t be playing any more of my scenarios.

I totally sympathize, but I wouldn't hold out much hope for Human nature to suddenly change. Because that's why you aren't getting the reviews.

Again, look at Amazon's reviews. There are New York Time's Best Sellers with feedback numbering in the low thousands. Heck, Robert Gate's new book "DUTY" has a whopping 301 reviews. Over at Barns & Nobel it's a paltry 60. And yet as of a few days ago it was reported that 80,000 books had been sold. Not a lot of reviews proportional to the interest level, that's for sure.

Netflix tries to get around this problem by pushing you to make a rating as soon as you finish watching something. They also don't show you how many people voted for something (at least by default). I wish we could implement something like this for you guys, but that's out of our league.

Next release as in Red Thunder, or in the one after?

Red Thunder.

Steve

[JonS]

I have d/l and played some great user made scenarios. Problem is I usually - OK never - play them right after I d/l so I forget who made what. I'll bet I'm not alone. Sorry about that.

check the designers notes. Most scen makers put their name in there. Also, the name of the designer is less important, here, than the name of the scenario. Put your feedback against the correct scenario, and the designer will find it.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I am - of course - truly happy with the review that you gave my latest scenario, Seizing Ciembienne. So thanks a lot for that.

The thing is that this scenario has been downloaded nearly 200 times - and so far your review is the only one. Two other players have commented in the release thread - and fortunately very positively. But still that is only three out of 200.

I am one of the 200. The reason I have not reviewed it is because I have not played it... and probably never will. I rarely play scenarios anymore. Mostly I just download them to modify the maps for QB play (via PBEM).

But I will say that it is an outstanding map, one of the few good heavily urban maps I have seen. It would be a shame for you not to make any more as you obviously have a talent for it. And thank you

[John Kettler]

umlaut,

If you want reviews, simply hold a tournament and make the AAR a big enough chunk of the score that those who really want to win will simply have to write an AAR. Believe me, you'll get feedback. Recommend you use the Nabla System if you do. That way, you can put the players into all sorts of credible, but unbalanced-dire, situations, yet still find out who's got the wargaming chops. Worked for ROW, where I both wrote many and helped evaluate those for one I had to sit out.

Regards,

John Kettler

[umlaut]

I feel like I´m beginning to hijack this thread. That wasn´t my intention. So I´ll just answer these comments and keep quiet (but I´ll probably start a separate thread on this subject soon):

If you put up Scenario 1 and you got 200 downloads, then you put up Scenario 2 and got 50, then put up Scenario 3 and got 10... well, I think that's telling you something Likewise, if you get a steady amount it tells you that you're at least doing things well enough that 200 people feel it's worth downloading.

That logic only works if you´re assuming that players are keeping track of which designer has made which scenarios. I don´t think that happens very often - except when we´re talking about the "stars", like PaperTiger or GeorgeMC.

I totally sympathize, but I wouldn't hold out much hope for Human nature to suddenly change. Because that's why you aren't getting the reviews.

Again, look at Amazon's reviews. There are New York Time's Best Sellers with feedback numbering in the low thousands. Heck, Robert Gate's new book "DUTY" has a whopping 301 reviews. Over at Barns & Nobel it's a paltry 60. And yet as of a few days ago it was reported that 80,000 books had been sold. Not a lot of reviews proportional to the interest level, that's for sure.

Netflix tries to get around this problem by pushing you to make a rating as soon as you finish watching something. They also don't show you how many people voted for something (at least by default). I wish we could implement something like this for you guys, but that's out of our league.

I think you overlook one crucial difference between Amazon, Netflix and BFC on one side - and user made scenarios on the other. The difference being that the former get paid for their releases, whereas the only "payment" scenario designers get for their effort is .... the reviews/comments.

As yes, it might be unalterable human nature to take what is there to take - without leaving comment or reviews. Just as it is also human nature to loose interest in continuing an activity if it has no payoff.

And please don´t misunderstand me: I am not going to stop making scenarios - I will without doubt continue to make them, because I think it is fun to create and play my own homemade battles. But as you know the difference between making a scenario that is playable for yourself and making the same scenario ready for release is very big. My own experience is that the time invested in getting a scenario ready for release equals the time spent making the scenario. In other words doubling the work - but with very little payoff. There has to be correlation between the work put into releasing the scenario and the feedback the designer gets. And in my view that is not the case at the moment.

[Battlefront.com]

Again, I totally sympathize with you. I don't know how to help out. We track how many people download and that, to me, is the thing that tells if what you are doing is "worth doing" or not. If you consistently get good numbers of downloads, then you must be doing something right. If not, then it's more difficult to say. But feedback on your stuff is unfortunately going to be lacking because that's Human nature.

My point about Amazon and Netflix is to put what you're going through in context. People tend not to post reviews even when they're happy with the product. That's just the way people are wired.

In a perfect world CM would work like Netflix. After you play a scenario it would ask for a rating, right there and then, and a blank spot for comments. Then the information would be "beamed to the mothership" and tagged to the scenario in question. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and I'm not quite sure how we can get this functionality into the game as there are so many other things we want to get in.

I'm open to suggestions because it is important to us to have you guys feel that making content is worth doing.

Steve

[76mm]

I'm open to suggestions because it is important to us to have you guys feel that making content is worth doing.

I think that one of the most practicable things that you can do is to simply make it easier to make scenarios, and to me, that mainly means making it easier to make/re-use maps.

I realize that random maps aren't in the cards, better map functionality--from map re-use between games, to macro-tiles, to copy-paste from one map to another--would be a huge time-saver.

[PanzerMike]

I just checked my scenario MG Betuwe on Fire. Downloads: 292. Ratings: 6. Also some comments in the thread in the mod forum. But that's it. All comments very favorable (thanks guys!) but still, the number of comments is hardly stunning.

Hardly an incentive to make new scenarios one could say. On the other hand 292 people at least took a look at it. Thing is, I was guilty of not rating stuff myself, up until recently. Too lazy probably. But since I took the plunge and published a few scenarios myself, I realize that rating someone's efforts is a good thing. You really want to know if what you published (and labored on for weeks) is any good.

But you can't force people to do so of course. I do feel the BFC repository could use an overhaul. Maybe that would tempt players to pay a visit and voice their opinion.

Just my 0.02

[MikeyD]

I've got a few Repository scenarios up (mostly old CMSF ones) and I must admit I've never thought to go back and look over the comments and ratings. I think they're fun, to he(ck) with anyone else's opinion.

Now that I think of it, I've done more than a few scenarios that went into the releases themselves - again mostly CMSF. Even those scenarios, most of them I haven't heard the least peep about, even Beta testing feedback, even the ones I was proudest of. Its just something I accept. People say there are 'cat' personalities and 'dog' personalities. 'Dog' people thrive on praise, pats on the head and a scratch behind the ear. 'Cat' people just want to fed on time and left alone. We also like laying on the floor in a sunny spot.

[sburke]

That logic only works if you´re assuming that players are keeping track of which designer has made which scenarios. I don´t think that happens very often - except when we´re talking about the "stars", like PaperTiger or GeorgeMC.

Don't sell yourself short. You've actually gotten more feedback than I have. LOL

I look at it this way, nobody is giving me too much s**t for making em too hard (mostly). Unlike the poor designer of school of hard knocks who dared to make a scenario meant to give an idea of some of the bloody nose the US got in Normandy and has been crucified (repeatedly). Not getting feedback could be a really good thing.

[PanzerMike]

People say there are 'cat' personalities and 'dog' personalities. 'Dog' people thrive on praise, pats on the head and a scratch behind the ear. 'Cat' people just want to fed on time and left alone. We also like laying on the floor in a sunny spot.

Woof woof

[Baneman]

.... I do feel the BFC repository could use an overhaul. Maybe that would tempt players to pay a visit and voice their opinion.

This.

The Search function is particularly arcane and difficult to use ( to find, even, buried 2/3 of the way down the front screen ).

All games are pre-selected, so if you're just looking for CMBN scenarios, you have to untick all but one.

Also, for some reason, it only appears to return one page of results even if there are more ( at least, I'm unable to find a way to get to 'page2' ) - eg. try to find all Aris' CMBN mods.

[A Canadian Cat]

In a perfect world CM would work like Netflix. After you play a scenario it would ask for a rating, right there and then, and a blank spot for comments. Then the information would be "beamed to the mothership" and tagged to the scenario in question. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and I'm not quite sure how we can get this functionality into the game as there are so many other things we want to get in.

That would be good - I agree. I see the difficulty for sure - lots of fiddly bits to put into the game.

I'm open to suggestions because it is important to us to have you guys feel that making content is worth doing.

OK how about this then. We know the key is to offer an opportunity to give feed back easily and at the right time (as in at the end of the game). How about having the game have a button that launches an URI which connects to the scenario's location in the repository. Or to a URI that auto appends to a forum post. That way the game change would be much simpler - get a URI from the scenario and let the OS find an app to open (aka browser) to take the user to a place that already exists.

Of course that does mean changes to the repository. But you could skip all that too by allowing the scenario designer to specify the URI and then they could start a forum post just before releasing the scenario and include that URI in the shipping scenario and boom for the price of a new property in a scenario file an a button to launch the browser on the end game screen you have a way to collect well timed feed back.

To make things even easier also put a command in the in game menu screen to connect to the scenario URI (same mechanism) that way it is easy while playing the game to comment on something right when it happens.

[Rocky Balboa]

An automated email to those who have downloaded the content, Asking them for feedback.

The email would contain 2 links

Click here to provide feedback or

Click here if you do not want to leave feedback

Clicking on the 2nd link means you will not be asked again to leave feedback on this content.

Of course there should also be an option in the account setup that allows the user to turn of all requests for feedback.