CMRT - BETA AAR - German Side

[wadepm]

And German doctrine is to place mines on the road! It would have been interesting to see his T-34s run full speed into a minefield.

And if Elvis had been able to call in his mortars that would have been interesting too...

[Bil Hardenberger]

I saw someone post when I skimmed through the tea party that I was shocked when you raced down the road to GELB. The entire game I played as if you would go for those woods and GELB before going to ROT. But I assumed that you would approach it with caution. So I set up some mines and a platoon to surprise you. I did my best to have each team and squad set up so that they barely had LOS to the mines and the gaps between them. My thought was tthat I would have a bigger impact and cover a larger line that way. Up until I lost my armor, I still believed you would come through there.

I did see that very early in the planning phases you had determined that I would go for Gelb before Rot.. that was pretty damned good analysis Elvis and was spot on. You might have been set up correctly in the woods for an infantry advance, but you really left Gelb itself open to another route of advance... the road or a swinging left hook (from my perspective) would have worked for me.. I opted for the more direct route and HOPED that you did not have AT mines across it. I can see why you didn't, if you expected me to stick to the woods...

Regarding your defenses in the woods.. I don't know if you realized it but most of my maneuvering through the woods (until I was sure they were empty) were along the edges, I avoided the interior as much as possible. This would have bypassed your defenses as I moved my infantry toward Gelb.

[Rokko]

One question: How many Panzerschrecks did your straggler group have? Your infantry did seem to have little to resist Bill's tanks in this relatively close-terrain map.

[BFCElvis]

One question: How many Panzerschrecks did your straggler group have? Your infantry did seem to have little to resist Bill's tanks in this relatively close-terrain map.

They had none. And no panzerfausts either. I purchased 2 schrek teams. One died trying to relocate and the other was in ROT and never came into play.

[Jishmael]

Great AAR, kinda sad that you couldnt turn it around, but respect for going up against Bil. Maybe you couldve used some more Metzger Style Heroism

And maybe more Shreks and Panzerfausts ^^

So, are we gonna see C3K send in a Soviet Human Wave next?

[Cymru]

I will add my thanks. Seeing how each turn played out, after reading the rationale for each move has been very instructive.

[The Hound]

Elvis, Bil, just wanted to say thanks for the show! I would love to see more like this, great game.

[shrek2]

Me too, great game! Would it be possible to see the hit decals on the Panther? Thanks!

[Morthomme]

One more to thanks you for this great AAR !

Lots of things for improving our plays

[Wodin]

Another great Beta AAR..well done Bil and Elvis.

[Odin]

Great AAR chaps. It had me gripped all the way through. Is there any chance of sneaking another AAR in whilst we wait for the release of RT?

[Callidus87]

Great AAR guys and well played Elvis. It was a very enyoable read

[Florian]

Hello,

I would like to thank Bil and Elvis for their the great and fantastic AAR and their effort and time. I visited and read nearly every day what Bil and Elvis reported and I learned a lot and get more excited about CMRT.

I am looking forward to the release date.

If another AAR could be started I would be very pleased.

Cheers

[BFCElvis]

Thanks for all the kind words.

It's about time I did some kind of wrap up.

I'm going to post some end of battle screen shots. I had actually made some of the in game AAR but they were identical to the ones Bil already posted, so I won't double up.

Here is what the battlefield looks like at the time of my surrender. It reinforced my feeling that the only way I could win this was if I eliminated his armor and was able to focus my armor on supporting my small arms fire.

But we all know what happened to them........

Hetzer that too fire from his plane. He kilt 3 men, they were in the probe he did on my left, outside of GELB not long before the end.

Hetzer that popped an Assault Gun but didn't kill it. Done in by a Face command. I did feel that I would get a little more cover from the trees. When I play golf, I always say "trees are 80% air" and then hit the 20% that aren't. This time he hit within the 80%. Next time I play golf I'm bringing a T34.

Ah, my Panther. racked up halfway decent numbers before going down. My favorite was the OT34. Good times....good times......

And who could forget these guys!! The team I had set up in ambush on my left. Did a nice job and were rewarded the way I reward all my troops who perform nicely... I let them get killed.

[BFCElvis]

It was hard to tell but I thought this HMG had gotten more. They were the crew that was slightly east of BLAU.

This scout earned his medal.

Here is a closer view looking back at GELB.

And from ROT

and behind BLAU

[BFCElvis]

And of course the flamethrower team. They hung in there and continued to fire without backing down.

[Michael Emrys]

Next time I play golf I'm bringing a T34.

That should at least disconcert your golfing partners. But I'm not sure how the greenskeeper will take having his fairways torn up by tracks. That would add up to a hell of a lot of divots.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL I am sure he would be directed to only drive the T34 on the cart path

[BFCElvis]

LOL I am sure he would be directed to only drive the T34 on the cart path

Hey, I'm not an animal....of course I would keep it on the path.

[Michael Emrys]

Hey, I'm not an animal....of course I would keep it on the path.

Then that's what the treads would be eating up. Probably less inflammatory than the fairways.

Michael

[BFCElvis]

Ok. I guess I should say a think or two about how the game went down.

I don't regret my purchases, other than I should have found a way to get a couple of TRPs.

When I deployed, even looking back at it, I like what I did with what I had. I am still convinced that Bil will come through those woods in front of GELB and take a nasty beating. I do wish that when I split my teams I had broken off an assault team from each squad so that one team would be mostly sMGs.

Doing the recon/hunt with 2 squads was not done as well as maybe it could have been. Taking greater pains to protect themselves would have been prudent.

I thought pulling the platoon that I had set up in ambush positions east of BLAU and moving them further to my left to oppose in force, any approach along the map edge seemed like a good idea but I lost more than I dished out over there. I'm not sure how much better they would have made out if they had stayed in their initial set up positions. In hindsight the cover that the buildings provided to an HMG team and the flamethrower team was much better than the woods gave me.

Putting my HMGs in ROT is a choice that we never got to find out about. The map gave me very very few spots that afforded me anything but short lines of fire.

I was happy with my evacuation of BLAU. Everyone was able to get out safely except for the flamethrower team. And that turned out to be a blessing, of sorts.

I also can't complain about how I used my armor, until the very end. When I moved them all into position on my right with a clear view of the left side of the woods, I was able to get the jump on Bil. I regret not staying in place to make sure I finished the job. I doubt Bil would have brought the other one forward to protect the unmanned beast. When I did pull my armor back, I set up in BLAU with perfect position to take out Bil's OT-34. I don't remember if I posted a screen shot of it but I had the Panther in the middle and each Hetzer spaced out on each side. Bil had moved the flamer behind the smokehouse and had nothing to shoot at and if he moved, one of my AFVs had a clean shot. Turned out to be the Panther.

The move he made on GELB was a complete surprise. Never imagined he would do something like that. However, I loved it. I felt I had the armor advantage and that he was pinned there. When my AFVs were on the little hill, they all had hull done line of sight to most of that area. I thought that, just like in BLAU, if he moved his armor one of mine would see him first. When I broke a scout off from the platoon by the mines and had him take a look at the area, I saw one just sitting there and thought a quick move could get it. The now famous Face command mistake took away that and ended the game in 2 turns. The spot I moved them to was the only spot where both the Hetzer and the Panther had a line of fire to where he was sitting.

[Callidus87]

Okay first and foremost I want to make clear that i make this post with good intentions, and do not want to offend you elvis, but show you errors you did in my opinion to improve your game and hopefully your gaming experience in the futer.

Second I'm not a proffesional or trained military man, 9 month of duty just told me how to clean a weapon and my room . So my opinion is based on my gaming experience. I think i'm not at terrible player.

Third as I didn't played the battle I couldn't see the map as good as you could so there is a possibility that i saw oportunities and positions that in reality weren't there. You have to judge such things.

4. I'm german and we tend to say things more directly as you may be used to, so again this is written with good intentions, if I sound unpolite I appologize.

I think your purchase was okay, as it was intended to show of stuff. So I start with your plan for this battle.

Imho I had 3 major Points which I disliked a lot from the start of the battle.

1. your ambush defence of gelb with a platoon + mines deep in the forest.

2. your armor placment all the way back at rot

3. your incredible overpowered and imho useless defence of Rot.

So Point 1:

You didn't need to defend there at all. you would have gained nothing from defending that area. the critical area was the road. And even more importaint the bridge and the start of the road. would you have setup that forces there they would have had much more impact and slowed Bill down more. in the worst case Bill would have evaded into the thick forest where you wanted to defend. But that would have been great for you. It takes incredible long to get infantrie through such terrain. I think it would have been likley that the battle would have been decided before such forces would have reached gelb. and even if they would reach it they would have to cross a long distance over open terrain to reach rot. So in short as long as you control the road and the open terrain all forces going through those woods on gelb are out of the battle.

Second Point (2): this one isn't as clear to me as 1, But i belive that you put yourself at a disadvantage placing your armor so far behind your defence line. It was almost impossible for them to help at the bridge and the road behind it. They were also your most mobile and powerfull fire power and you needed to achiev more with them than just killing bills tank. i think you should have used them in your earley game with ambushes and harrasing. Sure that would be a risky move but there were a lot of ambush and retreat positions for them that you didn't use at all. I hoped to see them in ambush positions to fire on every road crossing that bill would have to make and than falling back to the next one. The Panther plus scouts (good scouts by the way) on the west side would have been enough to scare bill away from using that aproach. leaving 2 Hetzers for ambushes and harrasing. And If you wouldn't have defended that forrest at gelb you would have had the infantry to support and spot for them.

Let's get to Point 3:

Well you just robbed your platoons from a lot of theire firepower to put that MGs in positions where they would enter the fight when the battle was lost.

I don't recall how many support weapons you hold back there. 3-5 MGs(including the one from Gelb). That is serious fire power that you despretley needed at Blau and imho to cover the main road up north, and some forrest roads and road crossings. MG 42s are the main firepower of german infantrie and you just placed them where they would never have any use other than in a last stand where Bill would have secured everything else lost all his tanks and had no artillery left. That would have been the only scenario where those crucial weapons would have had a major effect. in almost all other cases they would have been more or less useless. One had effect but only because you abandond Blau and lost the battle.

Planing over let's get to execution.

Well you did a lot better than I expected you to do. But on the other hand you could have done even better. Bill's aproach was favoruble for you and you didn't made enough of it.

I disliked your move forward with your tanks, which got them killed right away. Well as i read Bills side too It was clear to me what would happen, but you got over aggresiv with that move. In such a Situation It's not a good idea to close distance with german armor vs allied soviet armor. they are just faster more maneuverable and they want to get close to you. So in almost every scenario you do not want to get closer to them. in the best case you get into position and kill all of Bills armor in one minute if that does not happen he rushes in your side and behind you.

After don't getting shot's at Bills tanks for several rounds you should have repositioned instead of attacking.

Okay last Point that i will mention. Your earley and complete withdrawl from Blau. I think you were correct to abandon your starting positions and fall bak. But you ran to far. you needed to fight for Blau and that as hard as possible. That was the Open terrain where you had the best oportunities to catch Bill's troops in the open and get crossing fire on them. Just imagin what have happend if the flame thrower had a squad to cover him.

Blau was your major Killing zone and you gave it up to early. you saw how good you MG's where in this kind of terrein if you have had the ones you placed in Rot here Bill would have had to pay a much higher price. Also Blau was the only objective that was defendebal. Rot and Gelb where open to fire from direct Fire weapons and such you almost automaticly loos every firefight vs Bills Troops If he can attack organised (If he can build a base of fire vs those objectives). Blau shields a lot of Positions from Bills covering fire.

So I think this is enough stuff to think about.

I hope you understand what I mean and you got another perspective on the battle. If you feel offended than please just ignore this post.

If you think I am wrong that is also okay and I would like to enyourage you and eveybody else who thinks I am to explain to me why.

Closing I would like to say I didn't liked your plan but was very surprised how well you did with it and I loved this AAR and hope I will read more from you.

Calli

[Zatoichi]

Coming fashionably late to the party, just wanted to say thanks to Elvis and Bil for putting on such a good show!

I've really enjoyed reading both sides of the battle, and think I've learned a lot from each of them. Admittedly, most of what I've learned is 'Avoid playing against Bil', and 'I wouldn't start from here if I was you', but hey, that's still learning!

Good job guys - looking forward to the next AAR.

[BFCElvis]

Calli,

Thank you for your feedback. I don't take any offense. When you do these things you go into them knowing your every move will be dissected and not everyone will agree with what you do.

The only point of yours that I absolutely agree with is that I should have made better use of my HMGs. I'm still not sure of what but something better could have been done. I put them in the only spot that had any kind of real LOS. And even that was not very far.

My final decision to pull out of BLAU was when I had the sound contacts that meant his ISUs were about to reach the southern edge of BLAU. At that point they would have been free to level the place and the area just beyond. I needed to protect every man until I dealt with his armor.

Which is where I disagree again, in my opinion. ..job #1 for my armor was to neutralize Bil's armor. Only with his armor out of play did I feel that I could concentrate my armor on his infantry. And in the early part of the game around the bridge, it would have been suicide. You had the advantage of seeing both sides. I didn't. Not only did I not see both sides, I didn't really see my side. All the Russian sound contacts were black for me most of the game. There was no way for me to tell if what was approaching was infantry or armor. The more blind you are the more conservative you have to be.

As you suggested I did essentially leave GELB undefended. The HMG was a token unit holding a VL that had a little punch if necessary. As I said before, I never in a million years expected Bil to blindly rush down that road. There was plenty of time for him to do a methodical advance through the woods (as you point out he probably would have done if he had met resistance on the road). Which at that point it becomes a coin flip over guessing which way he'd come.

Attacking from that road/woods south of GELB across to ROT is not attacking across the open. As I mentioned earlier and in other posts, visibility is very short. The ISUs where beginning to target the second level building in ROT but my guess would be that they had no LOS to anyone else in ROT.

Again, I appreciate you feedback and maybe all of your ideas would have changed the battle., maybe none of them would, There are some aspects that you can only appreciate if you are in the moment with much less information than someone watching both sides has and you have to make a decision.

[RockinHarry]

As I said earlier, there wasn´t much choice tactically, as both players had to attack/defend exactly the same meaningless map spots (VL), more or less knowing where both players are to move and to stay, in order to "win". If this was a mission design, I´d say homeworks undone, but it was a simple QB setup with its limitations. Though as showcase for oncoming CMRT features, it did its purpose quite well, as was entertaining to follow.