CMRT - BETA AAR - German Side

[sburke]

Thanks Elvis, AAR much appreciated and very entertaining.

[Jotte]

Metzger should be awarded a posthumous Iron Cross. He really knew how to use that SMG of his!

[ridethe415]

Und wir sind dann Helden. Für einen Tag

Anybody who quotes Bowie goes above and beyond the call of duty.

[MikeyD]

[edited, deleted]

[BFCElvis]

[edited, deleted]

I can take it, Mike. Don't hold back.

[Aragorn2002]

Und alles kam wie es kommen musste.

Thank you, Elvis, it's been fun.

[Battlefront.com]

Anybody get the Das Boot sense of drama in Elvis' last post? I had to imagine the heavy somber music, but that's what I got from it.

Thanks so much Elvis for volunteering for standing up to Bil. He's a big AAR bully, after all

Steve

[Vet 0369]

Elvis, thank you for the info about the FT. Excellent AAR, I'll be sorry to see it end. I'm sorry to hear you'll be hitting the "ceasefire." I don't think I could do that. Even in a game my USMC side keeps telling me "Hey, you're gonna die anyway. Slow them down as much as possible, and make it hurt!"

[Michael Emrys]

It takes a lot of balls to go up against Godzilla Hardenberger publicly. So full points to Elvis for taking it on and my thanks as well for a very interesting game.

Michael

[Vet 0369]

"A man's worth is measured by the strength of his enemies!"

[permanent666]

Banzai!!!!!!

[BFCElvis]

I just posted in Bil's thread that I have offered my surrender. He is a fantastic player and really rang my through the wringer on this one.

There were a lot of things that I felt I did well and others I wish I had differently. Ultimately I stand by everything I did because I had a good (ish) reason at the time. I just took a quick look at the Tea Time thread and haven't looked at Bil's yet. I imagine there are some questions about some of my choices and I'd be happy to answer any questions. Once we get the end game turns I can go into even more detail.

Thanks for reading this thread. It is nerve wrecking and fun.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Yes, thanks for playing Elvis!! I had some hard moments in this one. Looking forward to the debrief.

Bil

[c3k]

Thank you both!

Elvis, good fight!

[AlexUK]

The damage inflicted by the flamethrower team was frightening - this got me thinking - is the damage a kind of area effect issue, and if so is there a kind of circular damage area? Also can this damage area cross an Action Spot? I was thinking of urban warfare and the current difficulty with targeting buildings - could you target the flamethrower at the action spot outside of the front of the building and inflict damage on troops inside, for example?

[Bil Hardenberger]

That damned flamethrower was ridiculously well positioned.. in the two buildings which were behind a hedge.. so I could not get any ranged fire into them and had to close to engage, it was the perfect setup for that team armed with flamethrower and MP40.. and I wanted that bastard dead.

Got him in the end, but man Elvis you did a good job with that team.

Bil

[Vinnart]

You played an honorable game Elvis. Despite the outcome you got your blows in, and did a nice presentation. Thanks again for a fun read. Better luck next time.

[paraloid]

Beautifully presented and fascinating stuff - I really learned a lot from both of you - thank you very much.

[Heinrich505]

Elvis,

A gallant fight and an excellent AAR. This was one hell of a showcase.

The eastern front is back...with a vengeance.

Heinrich505

[John Kettler]

Elvis,

Thanks for an exciting, informative, entertaining, even terrifying AAR! Here's some info (you may wish to check the in-game weapon file) on the FT I think your men had. ISTR the 5-shot limit on the FmW-41 was the result of a cartridge igniter system the Germans used.

http://www.germandaggers.info/weapons3.htm

Pioneers on Eastern Front (mostly?) FT combat footage; wargame animation sequence at start and finish. If you pay close attention, you'll see the dismount hose and nozzle for the 251 FT (game models only the two flame projectors mounted atop the AFV) in use.

FmW-35 only. I see a lot more than five bursts here; different igniter?

Turns out the FmW-41 doesn't use the cartridge system; more like an elaborate pilot light requiring it's own hose and hydrogen supply, where the FmW-42 has 10 blank 9mm cartridges as ignition devices, with cartridge replacement being semiautomatic. Detalis at Lone Sentry under Portable Flamethrowers (German).

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bil Hardenberger]

Elvis, just read this entire thread... I think you were at a disadvantage about half way through the game with all the black UI icons.. sorry about that. I never thought it would be that bad for you. It makes a huge difference being able to ID which units are armor and which are infantry.

Regarding the battle.. I think with what you fielded you did extremely well, it could have gone either way until you moved your tanks forward at the end. We'd still be playing if you hadn't done that.

I am very curious what the kill stats look like for this one. I lost a lot of infantry, but so did you. It looks like you had a huge portion of your combat power in the woods leading to Gelb.. that might have been a mistake, and if you had kept several units in Blau instead of evacuating it then I would have been forced to fight for it and it could have been uglier for me. That would have been better for you in the end than having that combat power out of position and easily bypassed (or shelled from afar from my ISU-122s).

Still, outstanding game! Thanks for facing off with me.

[herr_oberst]

Once again, thank you for the AAR teaser, both participants. Always nice to get an early peek, and to get an idea of the capabilities of the new units available.

Hetzers are great keyholed - in open terrain, not so much. T35/85's can pack a punch, and flamers in any form seem pretty wicked. I predict much smoke and flame in upcoming QB's.

Thanks again. Great work by both parties involved.

[Dadekster]

Good game guys and thanks for putting out the effort to let us get a glimpse of the game.

[BFCElvis]

Elvis, just read this entire thread... I think you were at a disadvantage about half way through the game with all the black UI icons.. sorry about that. I never thought it would be that bad for you. It makes a huge difference being able to ID which units are armor and which are infantry.

Regarding the battle.. I think with what you fielded you did extremely well, it could have gone either way until you moved your tanks forward at the end. We'd still be playing if you hadn't done that.

I am very curious what the kill stats look like for this one. I lost a lot of infantry, but so did you. It looks like you had a huge portion of your combat power in the woods leading to Gelb.. that might have been a mistake, and if you had kept several units in Blau instead of evacuating it then I would have been forced to fight for it and it could have been uglier for me. That would have been better for you in the end than having that combat power out of position and easily bypassed (or shelled from afar from my ISU-122s).

Still, outstanding game! Thanks for facing off with me.

When I got the icons it was still a few turns before I realized that the black ones were vvehicles. At first I thought they may have been a different infantry type or something. Then it dawned on me that you may not have had the black icons at all. I was going to mention it in a post but thought it would sound like sour grapes. It isn't what lost the game for me, so ultimately it was a non factor.

I saw someone post when I skimmed through the tea party that I was shocked when you raced down the road to GELB. The entire game I played as if you would go for those woods and GELB before going to ROT. But I assumed that you would approach it with caution. So I set up some mines and a platoon to surprise you. I did my best to have each team and squad set up so that they barely had LOS to the mines and the gaps between them. My thought was tthat I would have a bigger impact and cover a larger line that way. Up until I lost my armor, I still believed you would come through there.

[Battlefront.com]

My thought was tthat I would have a bigger impact and cover a larger line that way. Up until I lost my armor, I still believed you would come through there.

If he had not had those T-34s, I am sure he would have tried doing that. Running infantry down a road isn't very smart

The problem you had is Bil knows his doctrine. He had those T-34s loaded with tank riders and was simply waiting for an opening to have them go full throttle. That's textbook Soviet thinking that is! And as we saw, it worked damned well!

In real life such moves often met with a lot of burnt out tanks and dead tank riders. However, only when there was sufficient forces to create second lines of defense and LOS opportunities. You lacked both so you were kinda screwed one way or the other.

IMHO you had it tougher than Bil in terms of the map and mission. Put another way, Bil had more margin for error than you did. You had some really rotten luck, though we can debate how much of a roll decisions played into that. Let's face it... if your 120mm had come down when/where you had them going then the body count for Blau would have been far more in your favor. Your HMG in Gelb getting nailed certainly was one of the less glorious moments for your side too. Bil, on the other hand, got into that tussle with your Flamethrower that definitely didn't turn out very well for him.

As I said, you simply didn't have much room for bad luck or even slightly off tactical responses. Had Lady Luck not been such a b-hatch to you this could have definitely turned out more favorably for you.

Steve