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WeGo TCP/IP - hurrrrah


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"WeGo TCP/IP with the ability to save but not the ability to replay combat action"

No thread on this yet - are people no longer keen for it or put off by the no replay?

I'm very happy about it and think the no replay won't be an issue for me - I don't want to spend ages waiting for my opponent to pore over every second multiple times. And if we can save games I assume we can go over the action again afterwards?

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I've been saying forever that this isn't nearly as important to the whole customer base as other things. I think one look at how many times decals have been mentioned proves that :D

No, you can not go over the replays after. That's really the whole problem. There is no ability to save the information from two different computers, simultaneously, to one computer. When you do PBEM everything is done on one computer then moved over to the other, so it's a totally different ball of wax from the coding side of things.

Steve

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There is no ability to save the information from two different computers, simultaneously, to one computer.

Ah well, no biggie for me but now I'm curious about how the save in WeGo TCP/IP actually works. Do you have to save at a certain point in a phase, e.g., before orders are issued, or do both players have to save at the same time?

When I was talking about going over the action afterwards, I was assuming that separate saves had been made of every turn after issuing orders so you could load each turn up individually (not that you could see the replay as one continuous movie or during play). But if issued orders for both sides can't be saved this wouldn't work.

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It plays basically the same as it did in CMx1, but without the ability to replay combat.

Player A and Player B individually plot out their moves, the Orders Phase ends, combat is resolved in realtime, turn ends, players plot their moves, the Orders Phase ends, combat is resolved in realtime, turn ends, players... so on and so forth.

When you save you save the current state of each others' orders, the map data, the unit data, etc. There is no history of the last 60 seconds saved into the file, therefore you can't replay the combat. It's simply not available.

Just so you know Charles has always said it would be a major (massive) project to get replay to work. I believed him, however when Phil set about doing the code work I asked him to see if there was a sly way to make it work. Phil looked at the code and agreed with Charles that it would be a huge hairy monster to tame. I gotta go with what the smart guys say ;)

Steve

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i hope for tcpip wego WITH replay since cmsf release... that the only thing iam disappointed in, again, iam used to it by now.

everything else looks great but why can you "save" now in a tcpip wego mode "without" replay? i mean what is that, its easy to say its not so important after killing off the tcp/ip wego players since 2007, in 2007 there was much noise around the lack of tcpip wego with replay, now 7 years later most have given up.

as a huge fan of the wego replay and was a huge fan of the classic cmx1 TCPip wego mode, i dont understand any work done on this mode as long as there is no "replay", thats the most important thing missing. who would play a big batte he needs to save in tcpip with no replay?

the whole turnbased mode "works" only because you can sense the dynamic of each and every battle and action in a map in the replay and try to predict the outcome of the next round and your best orders based on it, so without replay, no feel of dynamic at any point you did not see the first time through.

this game mode it in fact pointless as it is, people dont care about it by now for obvious reasons and the new save feature was wasted time "in my eyes".

i know this is an old discussion, but if you want to bring tcpip to its former glory, get the darn replay in ;) thats all that is needed.

no hard feelings, i wait for propper tcpip wego with replay since cmsf came out with tcpip realtime play only. still holding that tcpip wego flag up, although no longer as aggressive as 7 years ago.

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It plays basically the same as it did in CMx1, but without the ability to replay combat.

Player A and Player B individually plot out their moves, the Orders Phase ends, combat is resolved in realtime, turn ends, players plot their moves, the Orders Phase ends, combat is resolved in realtime, turn ends, players... so on and so forth.

When you save you save the current state of each others' orders, the map data, the unit data, etc. There is no history of the last 60 seconds saved into the file, therefore you can't replay the combat. It's simply not available.

Just so you know Charles has always said it would be a major (massive) project to get replay to work. I believed him, however when Phil set about doing the code work I asked him to see if there was a sly way to make it work. Phil looked at the code and agreed with Charles that it would be a huge hairy monster to tame. I gotta go with what the smart guys say ;)

Steve

Hi Steve

I wonder if ultimately (CMx4) the answer to this might be for a server exectuable to be shipped with the game, so that when two players play TCP/IP one connects his client game to the server locally ie running on his PC, and the other connects remotely. Then have the server executable produce the file for the clients, containing all the necessary detail for each client's replay.

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Jock,

That's exactly my notion of how multi-player and/or co-op play would work. With a "server" handling a number of separate files according to the number of human and AI commands. It's all worked out in my mind except for the formal design and the actual coding and all the difficult stuff.

A guy can dream!

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I wonder if ultimately (CMx4) the answer to this might be for a server exectuable to be shipped with the game, so that when two players play TCP/IP one connects his client game to the server locally ie running on his PC, and the other connects remotely. Then have the server executable produce the file for the clients, containing all the necessary detail for each client's replay.

Thing is that sounds like PBEM using a network share to sync files between games. Drop box holds the files for each player and you load a turn play it ans send it to the server and your opponent loads it and sends it back.

If you use your suggestion you would be replacing the file sharing with data sharing over TCP/IP instead but the same amount of data would have to be shipped back and forth and the same cost of loading up the whole turn would be incurred. It might be slightly quicker if you left your game running because some things would not need to be reloaded. Not sure by how much.

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Two things:

1)

Sorry, I don't see the point in this new Wego TCP/IP. How is that different from RT TCP/IP with mandatory pauses every 60 seconds? Seems that I must have missed something.

2)

If BFC would assume that players have a data sharing service (eg Dropbox) available and one would accept waiting times for data transfer between turns they (BFC) could implement Wego TCP/IP with replay comparatively easy. Basically H2HH+.

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Two things:

1)

Sorry, I don't see the point in this new Wego TCP/IP. How is that different from RT TCP/IP with mandatory pauses every 60 seconds? Seems that I must have missed something.

No, you didn't miss anything. WeGo, even single player mode, is RT with mandatory pauses every 60 seconds and no ability to influence combat within the 60 seconds. The only difference between WeGo single player and the new TCP/IP system is no replay (and, of course, playing head to head!).

Currently players who do not want to do PBEM and do not want to play RT have no other option. Now they do.

2)

If BFC would assume that players have a data sharing service (eg Dropbox) available and one would accept waiting times for data transfer between turns they (BFC) could implement Wego TCP/IP with replay comparatively easy. Basically H2HH+.

We already have that... it's called PBEM :D

Steve

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While the whole battle can't be replayed I get that but what I want to know is can the "turn" be replayed so I can see what all my units did over n over?

i hope for tcpip wego WITH replay since cmsf release... that the only thing iam disappointed in, again, iam used to it by now.

everything else looks great but why can you "save" now in a tcpip wego mode "without" replay? i mean what is that, its easy to say its not so important after killing off the tcp/ip wego players since 2007, in 2007 there was much noise around the lack of tcpip wego with replay, now 7 years later most have given up.

as a huge fan of the wego replay and was a huge fan of the classic cmx1 TCPip wego mode, i dont understand any work done on this mode as long as there is no "replay", thats the most important thing missing. who would play a big batte he needs to save in tcpip with no replay?

the whole turnbased mode "works" only because you can sense the dynamic of each and every battle and action in a map in the replay and try to predict the outcome of the next round and your best orders based on it, so without replay, no feel of dynamic at any point you did not see the first time through.

this game mode it in fact pointless as it is, people dont care about it by now for obvious reasons and the new save feature was wasted time "in my eyes".

i know this is an old discussion, but if you want to bring tcpip to its former glory, get the darn replay in thats all that is needed.

no hard feelings, i wait for propper tcpip wego with replay since cmsf came out with tcpip realtime play only. still holding that tcpip wego flag up, although no longer as aggressive as 7 years ago.

I do agree with this ^ too. With the tcp/ip wego crowd gone or lost you begin to have different wants and player types. I could care less about decals. I just wanted to be able to play in turns online without having to play PBEM.

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It plays basically the same as it did in CMx1, but without the

Just so you know Charles has always said it would be a major (massive) project to get replay to work. I believed him, however when Phil set about doing the code work I asked him to see if there was a sly way to make it work. Phil looked at the code and agreed with Charles that it would be a huge hairy monster to tame. I gotta go with what the smart guys say ;)

Steve

Charles,

Don't read this...

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I just Googled "Chuck in a Jar" and up popped a bunch of brain pics. My big question is when does he find the time to do all that German porn? "Two Girls and a Cup" has taken on a completely new meaning...

Mord.

P.S. For those of you that don't get the reference...trust me...stay ignorant.

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We already have that... it's called PBEM :D

Heh - that's not what I meant. :)

I dug up a post I made a year ago:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1415800&postcount=21

It's like Wego but with replays. The players give orders and watch the movie at the same time. Downside is that both have to wait for the replay to be transferred from one player to the other each turn. Dropbox required.

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Heh - that's not what I meant. :)

I dug up a post I made a year ago:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1415800&postcount=21

It's like Wego but with replays. The players give orders and watch the movie at the same time. Downside is that both have to wait for the replay to be transferred from one player to the other each turn. Dropbox required.

Is that a mod or what Poesel? I'd be interested in that. It's the only thing that will keep the CMx2 engine alive for me. Cmx1 is still better. The randomness cannot be compared to. Although to enjoy I have to play defense a lot and even that have the ai assault me for challenge.

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Heh - that's not what I meant. :)

I dug up a post I made a year ago:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1415800&postcount=21

It's like Wego but with replays. The players give orders and watch the movie at the same time. Downside is that both have to wait for the replay to be transferred from one player to the other each turn. Dropbox required.

Not as easy as it sounds and, therefore, not something we intend on doing.

I do understand people missing the replay function of TCP/IP WeGo. But we've been consistently saying since about 2007 that it's just not going to happen. For the same development effort we could do dozens of other BIG features people have been asking for. Since a small minority will ever use TCP/IP WeGo it simply isn't a good idea to squander so much of our limited resources on such a feature.

Steve

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