Fionn Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 Hi, I know a lot of people here are knowledgeable about computers and when I was buying my current computer last year I asked for and got some good advice here. Anyways I currently have an AMD K6/II 333 and compatible motherboard. I've been looking into this recently and would like to roughly double the speed which should see me through the next year quite nicely and give me more than enough power for CM2 Anyways I "may" be selling my motherboard and CPU to get some money to put towards the CPU and motherboard upgrade. If I'm not though I probably would like to keep the socket 7 motherboard I currently have which would limit me to an AMD. Also, I reckon the Athlon's need L2 cache etc to perform up to specs and my old motherboard (1 year old) doesn't have any L2 cache so that probably rules out an Athlon for me. Maybe not though, could someone say for sure? AMD K6-2 500 $90 AMD K6-3 450 $126 AMD Athlon 500 $186 AMD Athlon 600 $379 Intel Celeron 500 PPGA $126 Intel P3-500/100 $217 Intel P3-533B/133 $299 Intel P3-550/100 $307 Intel P3-600/100 $414 Intel P3-600B/133 $433 My questions thus are: 1. If I don't sell the motherboard what would be the best thing for me to simply upgrade to. I figure it'd be a K6 III 450 but for £100 that doesn't seem like all that much of a boost in performance to me (especially since the 3D Now! coding seems to be a bit of a bust...) Is it possible (or worthwhile) to put an Athlon 500 on there (for about £150) ? I'd guess not since my motherboard would probably be too old-style for it to work to full potential. I hear the Celeron is eminently over-clockable with people overclocking 500s to 650 and 700. Since that's the range I'm looking to get into I could see my way to spending £200 to get a Celeron 500 and overclock it so long as it isn't going to frizzle on me within a year to 18 months. (next proposed update... probably just purchasing an entirely new computer) So, what's the advice? If I don't sell the cpu and motherboard what should I get ( knowing I want to keep the cost down to no more than 150 pounds (say $200-250 ) since this upgrade isn't intended to last forever. If I DO sell the motherboard and CPU then I'd probably have £250 to spend ( close to 325 dollars) to buy another CPU and motherboard. That could get an Athlon 500 and motherboard or a P3 500 with motherboard I guess. I'll post motherboard details if the discussion rages and they might be of help ( I forget what the bus speed is for example and that'd be handy to mention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 Fionn, I have had a celeron 300a overclocked to 451MHZ, It ran great, but cooling is a major concern. Also the amount of cache on the celeron is half of that on the p3. Some will swear going from celeron @450Mhz to a P3 500 warrants no noticible difference in performance; but As a gamer and one that likes to mutlitask I found this to be a misnomer. I have never owned an AMD I am thinking about trying an athalon 750 on my next system build but odds are I will probably grab dual MB and run dual P3 500s for a while, since i screw around with graphics alot and multitask. the p3 500s are a Great buy right now. Abit has just come out with a few new boards that are very upgradeable whichs if you are going for a new motherboard you want to keep in mind. Personally i would lean away from overclocking because of the cooling factor- it took me 6 chips before i got one that was 'gauranteed stable' to not overheat.if ya want any info on where to shop online I can give ya some places that are reputable that i deal with. Although I'm not certain how the overseas factor will play on that. SS_PanzerLeader....out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 *Fionn You have the same question I myself had 3 weeks ago. I have an EPOX-VIA-MVP3-G-M board and I replaced my 333Mhz AMD with the 500Mhz Chip. That doesn´t double performance but makes it significantly faster than before for a really good prize ------------------------- My questions thus are: 1. If I don't sell the motherboard what would be the best thing for me to simply upgrade to. I figure it'd be a K6 III 450 but for £100 that doesn't seem like all that much of a boost in performance to me (especially since the 3D Now! coding seems to be a bit of a bust...) ------------------------------------- *I would go for the 500Mhz K6-2 since it is significantly cheaper than the K6-3 without a dramatic performance difference. K6-2 and 3 have approximately the same performance in 3D applications, since they have almost the same floating point unit (a big backdraw for them compared with the INTEL Chips and the ATHLON) -------------------------------------------- Is it possible (or worthwhile) to put an Athlon 500 on there (for about £150) ? I'd guess not since my motherboard would probably be too old-style for it to work to full potential. ---------------------------------- *No it isn´t. The Athlon needs a special board which isn´t compatible with PII/PIII or K6-2/3. ----------------------------- I hear the Celeron is eminently over-clockable with people overclocking 500s to 650 and 700. Since that's the range I'm looking to get into I could see my way to spending £200 to get a Celeron 500 and overclock it so long as it isn't going to frizzle on me within a year to 18 months. (next proposed update... probably just purchasing an entirely new computer) --------------------------------------- *The Celeron will be the best performance/prize ratio, but you have to keep in mind that you need a new board. But anyhow best prize and a performance roughly equivalent to PII of the same speed. And if you are a lucky guy, perhaps you get one which is overclockable. -------------------------------------- So, what's the advice? If I don't sell the cpu and motherboard what should I get ( knowing I want to keep the cost down to no more than 150 pounds (say $200-250 ) since this upgrade isn't intended to last forever. ---------------------------------- *No upgrade last´s forever. Check for the Celeron on a good Slot1 Mainboard with Socket 370 adapter, that gives you the opportunity to replace the chip in a year with a PIII 600. The ASUS P3-BF is a really good board but it´s damn expensive (300DM) If you have to stay with your motherboard take the K6-2-500 (if your motherboard is able to run the chip, check for BIOS etc. Homepage of MB-manufacturer) ---------------------------------- If I DO sell the motherboard and CPU then I'd probably have £250 to spend ( close to 325 dollars) to buy another CPU and motherboard. That could get an Athlon 500 and motherboard or a P3 500 with motherboard I guess. ------------------------------- *If you have the money to spend, I´d prefer the ATHLON for the PIII. Same money but better performance with the Athlon. As you see, not an easy decision Helge ============== Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ [This message has been edited by DesertFox (edited 12-21-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 That's funny, I own a K6-2 333 too . To answer the questions in short: The fastest processor you can put into your board should be the K6-III 450. And remember: the K6-III is quite a bit faster than the K6-2 because of an integrated full speed L2 cache. If the K6-III seems too slow for you, you should jump straight to an Athlon. You will need a new motherboard, but you would need a new one for the Pentium III too, and an Athlon + new board is cheaper AND faster than a Pentium III + new board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 Fionn, if I were you I would sell the motherboard and CPU and get a new Athlon 500 with 128 meg of ram onboard. That will give you a big boost in performance that will last you a good while. And you can always pop in a Athlon 750 or 800-900 mghz chip later on for an easy speed boost when CM 3 ships. I think that's the best solution; it will mean you won't have to worry about upgrading for approximately 2 years and when you do want to upgrade, it will be as easy as swapping in a new processor into your existing motherboard. That makes for a very cost-effective solution over the long haul. And it will make CM run liquid smooth. Hope that helps. P.S. I would definately get a AMD Athlon, they are faster than PIII's, especially in 3D performance. [This message has been edited by Lee (edited 12-21-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stabsfeldwebel Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 Fionn, Myself when i got my upgrade price was an issue, but performance was too. My setup is a P3 at 450mghz with 128 megs ram. the 450 is a good priced one while the 500mghz is very little noticable difference and it'll cost quite a bit more, i can't see that a 450mghz would need replacing within a year, maybe 2, maybe. the ram is a priority in my book, gotta get that 128, and a great vid card is must too. Hope this gives you help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted December 21, 1999 Share Posted December 21, 1999 I suppose I would qualify myself as what my company (IBM) would consider a power user/hardcore gamer.. Bitter experience has shown me that if you're going to upgrade (or simply buy a new system) there's no point in doing things by halves. Up until now I've always been an Intel man. No longer. Unless Intel bring something fantastic out of the shop, I'm getting an Athlon. Whilst sticking with the socket-7 and going to 450 is an improvement of what... 30% over what you have now?.. and will result in basically any game you have running quite adequately, you will find that it will turn into a short-term benefit as it will soon need upgrading again. While you're at it, upping the graphics card and RAM mightn't be that bad an idea. (If you've a PCI 3d card in your current machine, and you <do> decide to get rid of it, I might come down the road to take it off your hands...I need to make my own old PC more marketable!) Some time back, I was looking at the cost benefits of buying mail order parts from the US or UK, vs buying locally. If you haven't done so, take a look at Everyman computing. They used to have a place on Grafton street, now they're in Dun Laoghaire and Duke St. Instead of trying to sell you a new PC or whatever, they'll happily sell upgrade parts to you, and the cost difference between buying the parts over the web and these guys was so small that I simply bought my goodies from them. My father got his PC from them too. http://www.indigo.ie/www. Actually, a better alternative I found out about later is CJ Tech at 086-8306645 or cjennequin@hotmail.com. He gets amazingly cut-price goodies, and most of my colleagues buy from him. He's usually able to beat prices from the web; you might want to drop him a line. I can vouch for the man, he's one of my bowling partners at IBM! (His actual name is Claude Jennequin.. French and making a pile of dosh on the side!) (For those who are wondering what I'm on about, Fionn and myself are in the same general area. I think... DWH Manic Moran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted December 22, 1999 Share Posted December 22, 1999 Just for grins... It won't help CM, but I am extremely happy with my Abit BP-6, dual PPGA Celeron 400's and 256 MB RAM. Work flys along under NT (VC++, Oracle & IIS), but that lame Win95/98 which runs my games only sees one. Win2K (in the proper version) wil see both processors, but you still need to find the apps to support it. Now I just have to lobby BTS for a big multi-processing version of CM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 22, 1999 Author Share Posted December 22, 1999 Trooper, I might just give him a call. It looks like I'll be selling the motherboard, CPU and current graphics card (Selling 333 Mhz AMD K6-II and Phoenix Gamer with 16 MB plus motherboard) I reckon that should net me enough to look into the Athlon 500 . A little overclocking and she should run about a 550 which I'll be quite happy with. I'm really only keeping my eye open to get some good play speed for CM and make sure I can see the nice effects of CM2 . I don't play FPSes and only occasionally drag out EAW so about the only game which will use the power and 3D card is CM. I'm still playing War in Russia. I've just cut off 2 German Army Groups in Winter 1942 and have about half of the German Korps trapped .. I just love Shock Armies ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted December 22, 1999 Share Posted December 22, 1999 Seems to be the right decision to me. You should however remember that overclocking an Athlon has a high probability to succeed, but is very hard to do (I don't even know whether it can be done without voiding your warranty; IIRC you have to open the CPU case ), so if you don't need the speed that badly, leave the CPU speed where it is. (actually I do play FPSes and I won't complain about the performance of my K6-2 333 + Voodoo 2 in Q3A, UT [and CM ], so you should be happy with an Athlon 500 ). [This message has been edited by Dschugaschwili (edited 12-22-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strat Posted December 22, 1999 Share Posted December 22, 1999 I have a P5 100 that has been upgraded to p166 MMX overdrive. The bus is page mode PCI. I want to upgrade again. I don't know what socket 5 or socket 7 means. I assume my system is socket 5. If I upgrade to 333Mz with an evergreen cpu, AMD K6, by the way, will my EDO RAM work fine with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted December 22, 1999 Share Posted December 22, 1999 Strat If you don´t have to change your board, your EDO will do the job. Memory handling is always a question of the mainboard, so if you don´t have to change the board, all will be fine. Helge ============== Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 22, 1999 Share Posted December 22, 1999 Haven't read all the other posts so they might have said this already. If you're upgrading don't buy another super7 mainboard because they're dead. Been a while since I was into the upgrading myself so I might have forgotten some of the names and stuff but I think the Athlon got somthing called socketA, the pentiums got socket2 (not that important really what is important is that the pentiums and athlons got different sockets and it's not socket 7). Go over to www.tomshardware.com for information and specs on everything hardware, there you will find out that a system with an Athlon and a GeForce 256 is the top of the line today. The good thing about the new generation AMD cpu's is that they're actually better than INTEL in crunching numbers so you can't really go wrong with it. With that system you can invite me home anyday. I still got my old trusty Celeron300 @450mhz w/hercules TNT and it's enough for now but only barely, I'm going for a GeForce first and maybe the next 6 months or something I'll buy a new Ghz Athlon cpu (if INTEL hasn't countered the AMD threat by then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted December 22, 1999 Share Posted December 22, 1999 Fionn- I just thought I would chime in here, seeing as this is kinda my field. With your Super-7 board, the only low-price alternatives you have are either the k6-2 or k6-3. The difference is, the k6-3 has integrated on-die cache (which significantly speeds up business applications and some games)... both are weak FPU (the key element for 3d gaming)... for COMBAT MISSION- if you want to stay cheap, go with the k6-II, not -3, the -3's are not up to the same speeds as the -IIs (yield problems w/the onboard cache), and the extra cache isn't going to help you in a 3d-intensive game like CM. My honest suggestion, however, is scrap the motherboard altogether and purchase the Asus K7M board (the best Slot A board out right now) and upgrade to an Athlon 500-600. the Athlon FPU core is FAR superior to the PIII, (and leaves the poor little k6 in the dust), its cheaper than the equivolently clocked PIII, and all around is a far better investment. Yes this will be more expensive, but in the long run it will provide you with a clean upgrade path to the 1-1.4ghz Athlons released next year, and give you far more satisfaction at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 22, 1999 Author Share Posted December 22, 1999 Eridani, Yes, it's the FPU on the current AMD 333 which is letting me down. The ONLY 3D game which I play is CM.. I every so often mention that my 1st 3d card (bought last october) broke around xmas but I didn't realise this until I started testing CM and was told by Steve and Charles that I wasn't getting acceleration. If it weren't for CM I'd still be playing without a 3D card since 3D games aren't a big deal for me. IOW this upgrade is just for CM and CM2.. I am pretty much settling on an Athlon 500 and a compatible board.. Thanks guys, ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 Eridani: Think about AMD when they get the Athlon to run in 0.18 micron with copper... smoking. There's a revolution in CPU's these days and we're there to see it, didn't think that would happen actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard III Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 FWIW Intel just announced the 750 and 800 MHz PIIIs today... See http://www.pcweek.com/a/pcwt9912211/2411459/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 A PIII 500 Dell laptop would be the most usefull if you can use it at work. You can even play combat mission while parked while waiting for the wife to finish shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 Yeah, Intel ANNOUNCED the 800mhz today... just like they announced the 733mhz a month and a half ago, but good luck finding one. Intel is trying to win a symbolic victory by making the highest-mhz (not the fastest, the Athlon 750 is still faster than the PIII 800) processor at the turn of the century. The truth is Yields on the PIII suck horribly. They can barely produce 700mhz parts, let alone 800, and as a reseller I'll tell you that 733's are STILL hard to come by (and expensive as hell). The point is basically that intel is lying. Or more specifically, just because they announce it doesn't mean it exists. The .16 micron Athlons are hitting *1.4* ghz when overclocked... and that's right now, the current fab process... AMD is just sitting on the Athlon 1ghz right now, trying to milk profits from the lower end chips before upping the bar. I don't necessarely agree or like this strategy, but its business and I definately do understand it. Intel is playing catch-up and that scares them. Their lead now depends on their ability to maintain the illusion of being the fasted processor maker on the market, even when this is clearly not the case(think about it, why else would anyone buy from them??? they make a slower product and charge more for it. The only way they can keep that up is if they prevent the public from realizing the full potential of thier other option). That is all this announcement is, smoke and mirrors so the public doesn't know that Intel has fallen well behind the power curve. sorry if this post makes little sense (grammatically), a seven hour plane flight and four hours jet-lag will do that to you (its 3:30EST right now) -EridanMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 I agree with that.. loyalty to corporate businesses usually never pays from a consumers view. Buy products after it's quality not it's brand/name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikeman Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 You are right on the money Eridani! Intel is certainly playing catch-up and running scared. They are fighting dirty too by twisting the arms of potential Athlon motherboard producers in Taiwan. Mikeman out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Harrison Posted December 23, 1999 Share Posted December 23, 1999 I am confused. According to Sharky Extreme and LLoyd Case (Gamespot) the PIII i820(PC800)coppermines are faster than the Athlons. Also, where are you seeing 0.16 Athlons? I've only seen 0.18s like the coppermines. From what I've read Intel now has the lead in the CPU wars. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted December 24, 1999 Share Posted December 24, 1999 David- .18 micron, not .16 (hazards of posting after a 7 hour plane flight) ummm check - theregister.co.uk anandtech.com tomshardware.com there are pleny of others, all of them say that the Athlon is clearly faster than the PIII even at equiviolent clock speeds. The ONLY benchmarks that the PIII beats the Athlon is intel's own Specific SIMD benchmarks (weighted heavily to make the Intel chip win), and even there, the PIII only wins by a sliver of a margin. Intel wants people to think their ahead, thus they are "releasing" chips they cannot produce (the PIII 800 for exanple)... -EridanMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted December 24, 1999 Share Posted December 24, 1999 Posting from inside the belly of the beast (writing from Intel in Folsom, CA) all I can say is that any gamer who wants and Athlon OR a PIII is nuts. I'm running an engineering sample of a Celeron 500A. The new Celeron designation is to diferentiate it from the current 500. The new A model is made from a coppermine core using the .18 micron process. and overclocks like... well, like the old 300a's. I'm currently running mine at 800Mhz with no voltage adjustments. It's basically a PIII800 that's goign to cost about $150... It's coming in Q1... that's what I's wait for... ifn you can wait a month or two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 24, 1999 Author Share Posted December 24, 1999 And the 500A will require what kind of board (and at what cost?) What are the drawbacks vis a vis a PIII or Athlon ? Thanks. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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