New file at the Repository: Uk Ab helluva take over Op Market GArden (2013-12-21)

[Battlefront Repository]

In the course of the invasion of Syria, our 2nd Regiment / 1st Marines Division has been designated by NATO HQ for blasting the NIRA dam door open, thus freeing the way to the British forces tasked with the assault of the much needed Nira's airfield. The code name of our mission chosen by a NATO bright mind is "Market Garden". Don't get me wrong, we are not going to go in history with a "bridge too far" tag on our back. We are the US Marines and assaulting either by air, sea or ground is our fare. We rather do it rightly and there is no one among our enemies to complain, because there is no one anymore around. You got it right ? Ok let's go through the mission........//....... About the enemy. We have had a new assessment done three days ago. It looks like all aircrafts and helicopters seen earlier have been moved to a farther field. The bad news are that the runway has been partially damaged to prevent any landing by our forces and the good one is that their Air Assets loitering time will only be of short duration, if they use them as expected. About their Ground forces: They have a Static Infantry Company reported as being from the 2 Infantry Battalion stretched from Hassan Village to Nira's Dam and Nira's SP. Some of its Elements seem to occupy the Darya Pass. They could built their defence fire plan around the four bunkers securing the Nira's bridge area. Our S2 points out that another Motorized Infantry Company from the...

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[Erwin]

Thank you for all the work you put into this.

[snake_eye]

@Erwin and all of you

Thanks. It really was a huge work, I am happy it is over. I just hope that it will please all of you. Considering the time it is somehow my Xmas present.

You have surely noticed the bad spelling of the file being sent : UK Ab Helluva…….instead of UK A Helluva…..:mad:

Leaving home Saturday and having not so much time left, I typed so fast, while uploading the file that my typing characters collided and you almost got a dyslectic title. I was then unable to change anything about it. You are all lucky, you could as well have found a file having nothing to do with the scenario

Merry Xmas to all of you

[Buzz]

Thanks snake eye. And thanks to Blackmoria for testing two AARs.

The read of the offering looks very detailed and a good fight.

I can't load it because my new GPU does not play nice for some reason?

Please see:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=112909

Merry Xmas to you.

[snake_eye]

Thanks Buzz,

I hope someone will be able to provide a clue for your MAC issue. MAC is definitively not the computer I like despites all its qualities it had in design & graphic works years ago.

BTW UK Ab Helluva Take Over.... Doesn't need to be corrected since it could stand for : UK Airborne Helluva Take Over.....

Looks like I was lucky that my mistake could be read that way

[Buzz]

Thanks snake eye for making UK Airborne Helluva Take Over.....

Yes. Mac's work well for my needs / work but a Hackintosh may be in the 2014 toy box?

[snake_eye]

Some of you have already requested Blackmoria’s AAR ‘s made during the testing. They really were very helpful for finalizing the A.I plans, changing few set-up’s and A.I pathways.

IF Blackmoria agrees he may post them in their original writing or revised forms as soon as he wants. That way they will be most useful for players looking for some advices.

Doing so, as a matter of fact is as helpful to the players that it is to the designer.

Cheer

[BlackMoria]

Sure, I would be most happy to post the AARs.

For the original AI plan, copied and pasted from my emails with snake_eye. **Be aware that what follows has some spoilers**:

AAR as follows.

First off, a very enjoyable scenario. I like in particular the defense of the first LZ. Very intense, particularly when I noted a number of squads were getting down to 2 to 3 bars of ammunition. I actually thought I might run out of ammunition before I stopped the counter attack on the first LZ.

Surprises - the fact you mined some of the trench works in front of some of the Bunkers. Took some of my assaulters by surprise but I only took one or two casualties. Second nasty surprise - the Syrian helo attack on the forest beside the first LZ. Took three rocket strafe attacks but thankfully, only a few casualties. Third nasty surprise - Syrian jets. Very surprised that I didn’t lose any vehicles to them - their bombs were off target every time.

Outline of Events during my Play Through

On game start , sent half my troops into the LZ proper, the other half to the high ground to get a good look at the area. Troops in LZ discovered the two bunkers near LZ 1 without taking casualties. Troops on high ground saw a ZSU and several tanks and bunkers towards the airfield, and two bunkers near LZ 2. Decided to wait for reinforcements before pushing on with the operation. Once the rest of the force arrived in LZ 1 and LZ 2, I started securing the LZs. A Javelin team from LZ 1 went to the high ground and killed the ZSU and one tank. LZ 1 forces pushed into the trees beside and prepared for the counterattack as well as started to sweep through the trenches there.

The counter attack came in and was stopped with very little casualties by my forces, though ammunition was very low for about half the LZ 1 forces. LZ 2 was quickly cleared but it took a while for my forces to knock out the bunker complexes and the one strong point to secure that entire area.

The two TOW vehicles took to the high ground and came under fire from the Nira Strongpoint. The FO eventually spotted infantry in the several building and adjoining trenches and hit each location with mortars. In the meantime, Syrian helos appeared and strafed and rocket attacked the woods holding my forces at LZ 1 but inflicted very little casualties due to my forces taking cover in the trenches. In the meantime some minor Syrian forces (probably stragglers from the counterattack) tried to push into the woods and my small arms fire stopped them just inside the edge.

That is when the first ‘mistake’ made by the Syrians. Syrian artillery fire started to come in on the edge of the trees and I withdrew my forces further into the woods and was ineffective due to my timely repositioning of my troops. However the Syrian artillery fell upon their own troops pinned down by me on the edge of the tree line and the Syrian artillery decimated their own troops!

My two TOW Hummers worked their way around to the Nira stronghold with the FO and one squad, one MG team and one AT team, and took the position with no casualties. It appeared my mortars were very effective on the Syrian troops due to the number of dead my forces found in the trenches and roof tops. My forces took fire from the Darya pass area and the FO bought mortar fire on those revealed positions with deadly effect.

Syrian helos attacked the Nira stronghold and very surprisingly to me, failed see the two TOW vehicles to the rear and rocket attacked the trenches but my forces took cover within the several building in the stronghold so I took no casualties. Once the helos departed, my forces (including the two TOW vehicles) left the FO and a few teams behind to secure the Nira stronghold and made their way to Darya pass. In the meantime, the Marines at LZ 1 pushed towards Hassan village and secured the area and the compound without a single shot being fired - either the Syrians pulled back or all rushed in the counter attack to their doom.

One the most surreal moments in the game came from the clearing of Darya pass. My forces cleared the pockets of enemy and the two TOW vehicles took up position on the other side of the pass. They spotted and killed a few static tanks and bunkers. Then the Syrian attack helos showed up and strafed the two TOW vehicles, immobilizing both of them. I suffered one KIA and several light wounded. I bailed out the vehicles and withdrew the crews to the protection of the narrow walls of Darya pass itself. What happened next was surreal. The attack helos continue to strafe the empty vehicles. Then Syrian jets showed up and dropped a total of 4 bombs on the disabled vehicles but all missed. Finally, Syrian artillery hit the empty vehicles and fired a total of 50 rounds of HE and destroyed the vehicles and kept firing at them even when the first few rounds destroyed the already damaged vehicle. Talk about OVERKILL.

Some of my troops spotted what looked like a tank moving in A Farouk village and my FO called an Thunderbolt area strike on the entire area of A Farouk village and the immediate surrounding area. Once the Thunderbolt arrived and attacked, he did repeated passes on the village and each pass resulted in another smoke plume of a burning vehicle. Once the Thunderbolt left the area, I counted 9 smoke plumes, a testament to the deadly and ruthless efficiency of the A10. Seems like there was a company of armor in the village!

The Brits finally arrived and I quickly got them underway and moving towards the airfield, fearfully that the Syrian air force might return and hit me while they were bottlenecked at LZ 2.

The Marines pushed carefully out from the Hassan compound to get eyes on but saw little except for a bunker or two and some infantry, which was dealt with while the Brit proceed down the highway to the airfield.

After taking up some overwatch positions with the tanks and the Scimitar and killing a few bunkers and a ZSU, the artillery killed several positions in which anti tank fire was spotted. Then nothing. I was not getting eyes on, despite rolling my vehicles up onto hull down positions on ridges and high ground and try to goad the enemy to shoot at them. No contacts for 15 minutes.

Could the Syrians be hiding behind the ridge beside the air field? Did they have anything left to oppose me as they took heavy casualties by my estimate.

The indecision weighted heavily on me. My forces had not moved in 15 minutes except to expose vehicles to goad the enemy and there was the danger of Syrian air power showing up if I continued to delay.

I decided to do a dangerous ‘Thunder Run’, gambling that the Syrians were decimated and demoralized. I established overwatch positions with two platoons of Brit IFVs and the Marines and decided to ‘Thunder Run’ with the three tanks and a mounted platoon of Brits, trusting in the firepower of the tanks and the mounted infantry platoon to deal with whatever was on the airfield. My forces launched out from the Sidi Bou Said defensive line that I had secured and ran hell of leather along to the highway, crossed the bridge and into the airfield, taking some small arms fire, and a few missed RPG shots. Once I hit the airfield, my forces spread out and started decimating a whole bunch of trucks when the game ended.

The outcome - Marines Total Victory

My losses (very light considering)

3 KIA

15 WIA

2 Other Vehicles (my two TOW vehicles)

Enemy losses

254 KIA

140 MIA

46 Missing

8 Tanks

10 Armor

6 Other

[BlackMoria]

The AAR for the second AI plan that snake_eye developed based on comments from the first AAR. Again, copy and pasted from emails and again, contains **spoilers**

AAR of the second AI plan. ** Spoilers within**

Nice variation of a AI plan as I didn’t know what to expect so my all around defense in the trenches in LZ 1 (which I did first game as well) defeated the flanking attack off the road without any casualties. A bit of a surprise with two BRDMs showing up in the rear area of LZ 1 as my infantry where moving from the drop off point up to the trenches, but I killed both without taking any losses since four of my squads got caught in the open but killed both in the first return fire salvo. The HQ in placed on the high ground near LZ 1 spotted lots of trucks heading into the Hassan village area and compound. Spotted several trucks in the trees and hit them and the surround area with mortar fire. I look forward to the end of game to see if I caused any casualties to the dismounts. At the one hour mark, spotted a large amount of infantry moving out the trees at Hassan compound towards the edge of the gully where they appear to be massing near my insertion point. All in plain view of my higher ground HQ, who is just now ordering the mortars into action, so it will be interesting the next few minutes to see if I can nail the infantry before they move out.

I also spotted some armor moving out the airfield area along the MSR towards Hassan village area but lost sight of them, which is a huge concern to me right now as I don’t know if the anti-armor resources I have at LZ 1 are sufficient to deal with a significant armor attack right now. I am trying to deploy my TOW launcher in the LZ 2 area somewhere I can see into towards Hassan village.

One hour in and no Syrian air assets have appeared yet. I don’t know if that is by design or not but I have been dreading to hear the sound of rotor blades at any time now.

Hope to play another hour or two tomorrow to see what develops as I am expecting perhaps a coordinate armor and infantry attack into LZ 1 area very shortly since I can see infantry massing near Hassan compound and the few armor I spotted disappeared near the airfield side of Hassan village. That would be interesting to say the least since my main long range anti-armor is near LZ 2 and may not be in a position to assist if an armor attack happens very soon.

My estimate was right. The armor my HQ on the ridge spotted looked like it was still on the move, so I pulled my LZ 1 defenders further back into the trees and the trenches. The HQ on the ridge rained death down in the form of mortar fire onto the infantry massing on the edge of Hassan compound area and my initial insertion point and that infantry withdrew back into the shelter of the trees at Hassan compound. My Apache and other TOW unit arrived. I immediately called an area mission for the Apache for the majority of LZ 1, a very risky move considering I had a few squads still within the danger zone but I was trusting on the copter being more interested in tank busting than trying to spot infantry in trenches beneath trees. In the meantime, near LZ 2, I dismounted a TOW unit and with the Javelin unit at LZ 2, I moved them up the hill to look into LZ 1 as much as they could see. They came under small arms fire from the Nira ridge area but my observer got all the mortars working against enemy in the buildings and trenches there.

Sure enough, tanks, BMPs and a BRDM showed up and skirted the edge of the trees on LZ 1. One BMP tried to enter the treed area but was killed in a volley of LAW fire from one of my squads. It seemed the armor was more interested of pausing briefly in LZ 1 and was posed to head off to the DAM bridge and LZ 2 given their positioning. The Javelin and the dismounted TOW crew on the hill shot all their missiles and killed 4 armor but got pinned down by return fire from two tanks. In the meantime, enemy helo attacks started peppering the LZ 2 area with rockets but none of my troops or vehicles took any casualties.

My Apache showed up and worked over the enemy armor in LZ 1 but strangely they RTBed after a few passes despite two tanks still sitting in the open in LZ 1. I ordered another attack helo mission into the same area but it going to take time to arrive and two tanks have my Javelin and dismounted TOW pinned down. Every time I try to order the two squads to withdraw to the safety, the tanks suppress them. The TOW crew never manages to withdraw (I had a real problem trying to get them to move and I suspect it was because the AI has them packing up the TOW launcher with takes time) and take casualties from tank fire and is finally finished off by Syria artillery. My Javelin team finally gets moving but a tank round wounds one man and the other man must withdraw to safety due to incoming Syrian artillery.

The two tanks finally are on the move and look like they are going to cross the bridge. In the meantime, the other recently arrived TOW dismounts and places the launcher on top of one of the three story buildings in LZ 2, in anticipation of the armor perhaps making a rush to LZ 2. One of my squads in LZ 1 spots one tank crossing the bridge and the other is sitting beside the bunker in the mined trench works just before crossing the bridge. Is it immobilized? I cancel the area mission for my helo since both tanks have left the area template and re-order the attack helo to take it out possibly immobilized tank. My surviving TOW crew gets a brief peek of the tank coming up the hill towards LZ 2 but it abruptly turns side on and disappears from view before I get a shot. Where did it go?

I got a Total Victory without having to take the airfield. The first wave of Brits arrived and moved off to Hassan village, taking care of the few remaining bunkers and the two enemy tanks along the way. Elements of the LZ 2 force took the observation ridge while being harried by Syrian air attacks, resulting in the loss of the Mk 19 Humvee but without any casualties except the vehicle.

The Brit tanks took overwatch positions forward of Hussan village and compound while the Brit Javelin teams took the high ground and building in Hussan village. The tanks and the Javelins teams killed several more tanks, two ZSUs, two BRDMs and a few trucks, and shot back at revealed enemy AT resources, resulting in enemy casualties. In the meantime, the newly arrived A-10s worked the area between the ridge beside the airfield and Hussan compound, with many bombs dropped and cannon strafe attacks against concealed enemy infantry positions. Syrian jets dropped bombs near my tanks and the tanks were rocket attacked repeatedly by Syrian helos but all my tanks survived the assault from the air, but all were immobilized eventually by the seeming endless attacks from the air. Syrian artillery reduced Hussan village to rubble (literally) but my forces in Hussan village withdrew to the compound once it was apparent what the Syrian ranging rounds were trying adjust fire for.

Before the second wave of Brit reinforcements arrived, I got the Total Victory message.

The Butcher’s Bill

My Losses - 2 KIA, 5 WIA, 2 Humvees destroyed (3 Tanks & 1 Humvee immobilized)

Syrian Losses - 255 KIA, 142 WIA, 38 MIA, 9 Tanks, 10 BMPs/BRDMs, 5 Other Vehicles

Very fun to play and very challenging. Once again, I got lucky with Syrian rocket attacks from the helos not causing casualties on my infantry but this time, most of the air attacks went against my vehicles, which was good since it spared my infantry from being attacked. My tanks alone where bombed 3 times (all near misses) and rocketed 5 times, and strafed twice, but all three survived despite being immobilized.

I like the new AI plan. The early armor attack was unexpected and had the potential to be devastating if it wasn't for the early warning my HQ on the hill provided me by spotting them moving up towards LZ 1. Once the armor hit the edge of the LZ1, my SRAW teams which I kept forward literally saw the first tank at 10 meters away, followed by a BMP at about 25 meters, which allowed them time of only one shot and to haul ass out of there further back into the trenches.

Basically, if one sticks to the trenches, without forewarning by having someone observing from the hill beside the insertion zone, the only warning of the armor attack is literally when the armor is very close range. Devious. I love it. If other players get sloppy and inattentive with this AI plan, they will get their asses handed to them when the armor attacks the LZ 1 area. SRAWs are terrible weapons to fight off armor - my SRAW teams fired off 4 shots, I got 2 hits a piece on a tank and a BMP at short range and DID NOT KILL them. It was only volley fire of LAWs which killed off one BMP and the rest of the armor was killed by my Apache, Javelins and the TOW launchers.

[Erwin]

I didn't want to read the earlier posts re tactics and what happens too closely but am enjoying the first 30+ minutes of this immensely. However, am a bit confused...

*****SPOILERS*******

The briefing is very detailed and gives specific times for reinforcements, but unless am misunderstanding something I found everything coming on later than expected. Also, I moved the at start units (at the more central LZ) to good vantage points and quickly spotted several bunkers, a tank and a Shilka.

I moved an at start AT team into what looked like an xnt position to see if it would fire at a nearby bunker, but after several turns it didn't. So, I assume that the SMAWS cannot destroy bunkers(??) (I read in the manual that SMAW's should, but why would it not fire?)

So, I decided to wait for the Javelins to appear so I could start taking the bunkers and AFV's out, but so far I have only receive two Jav teams each with only 2 Javs. The central LZ team used 2 Javs to take out a Shilka, so that's that for them. The map edge LZ team killed one bunker and missed a 2nd bunker (the one at the edge of the map) with the 2nd Jav.

Not sure if I can go up against bunkers with the two HUMVEES I now have at the map edge LZ. So I may have to send infantry along the LZ map edge to get that bunker (using demo charges?) that seems to be covering the road leading down to the dam from that LZ.

Meanwhile I seem to be doing well defeating a Syrian inf attack on the more central LZ. Taking maybe a dozen friendly casualties (which is too much imo) but killing many more enemy.

I don't want any specific tactical advice as am enjoying finding my way in this scenario and playing with what I hope is good logic and tactics. But, I am puzzled by what seems like a very complex and detailed briefing that is either inaccurate (or way over my head) and the seeming lack of Javelins.

I tried (unsuccessfully) taking out a bunker with the 81mm, but that seems a poor use of mortars.

I figure now that I shall just sit defensively and wait for heavier reinforcements (airpower and more Javelins I hope) to destroy the bunkers and AFV's as I can't see my central map forces making any headway towards the airfield objectives against the Syrian forces backed up by armor.

As I said, am having fun, but am a bit confused.

[snake_eye]

:DHi Erwin,

I shall not get into any tactical advice, since you don't need them at the moment and seem to be fully immersed into the game.

I just have to make a small correction to the briefing announced arrival time, having written incorrectly that LZ1 and LZ2 should have a Javelin team each within 10 minutes . The B Company HQ Javelin's teams are due on LZ1 within 10 minutes and 20 minutes on LZ2. That doesn't mean that this is the exact time. They might come 5 minutes earlier and or later.

About the SMAW. The assault teams do use them. However, sometimes they don't fire, but just stare at the bunkers. If they fire, it usually takes quite a few rockets to kill and or wound the bunker crew. That happens often, the bunker remaining undamaged, at least not destroyed.

I used sometimes the mortars with armor rounds against them.

The best weapon against them is definitively the Javelin and second a tank main round. The British Scimitar also works well against them.

Have a good game, be careful and don't fill the CCP - Casualty Collection Point -

[Erwin]

Ok thanks.... I just was wondering if I was using all my units wrong since without Javelins I feel I am in a stalemate until heavier stuff like CAS, 120mm mortars and AFV's arrive.

Wasn't sure if that is what you intended. Or, are the inf forces that arrive in the first 30 minutes intended purely to defend the LZ's against attack and recon for the bunkers and other enemy position and units, and I should not use em aggressively until heavy stuff arrives to do the real killing.

Regardless, I am enjoying the challenge of being confused and changing my plans on the fly while figuring out what I can realistically accomplish with the inf forces while minimizing friendly losses. It feels like "The operation has already gone to hell with the reinforcement schedule gone wrong and the Javelins gone missing, so what do you do now?" sort of thing. (Kinda like the WW2 MG op.)

[snake_eye]

Hi Erwin,

Glad you like it. I don't think that you are handling wrongly your forces at the time being.

You are right to ask the question about what should be done while awaiting the Brits reinforcement.

You must first consolidate LZ1 and be ready to repulse any possible counter attack. That is easier done than trying to move forward without any armor support, sufficient mortars and air supports. The bunkers can be dealt later, that is if you don't get into their killing ground zone, if so they won't be annoying. The Nira SP, overwatching partly LZ1 and LZ2, should be checked by fire and better, mortars as soon as they are available.

On LZ2 you must clear the area and try to link your forces with LZ1 and consolidate on the edge of it, in order to prevent any enemy force to get through to the bridge and remain there as a reserve. That means that you must suppress by fire the NIRA OP and the bunkers. The ones that should be particularly checked are the two, near the Nira bridge and OP, preventing easy movement on the road and the one on the LZ1 side enfilading the road and the bridge. The later should be destroyed or at least its occupants incapacited from LZ1 if possible.

The Marines Humvee's with grenade launchers, 50. cal and ATGM, when they come will help doing so.

If think that this battle should be fought that way till the Brits arrive.

Actually if it had been a real one, putting aground with helicopters, troops on LZ1 and LZ2 would have been hazardous (for the helicopters), unless all defence were suppressed. easier said than done. The LZ's would have been located farther away from LZ 2. I was unable to do so. the CMSF map did not allow me any more extension having reach its size limitation. That is why, I was just barely able to design the road along the cliff.

Cheer

[Erwin]

Aaargh you gave tactical advice... my eyes are burned out, I must not read nor remember...

[snake_eye]

Oups ! Sorry Erwin, :confused: but these are tactical evidences, when you look at the map after having read the briefing orders.

Luckily, I haven't written anything about the Brits

Cheer

[Erwin]

Fortunately, I can't remember what you are talking about.

[snake_eye]

Looks like the FOW -Fog of War- effect

[Erwin]

The EBFOW - Elderly brain FOW.

Ok, here's my operational situational report after 1.5 hours for your amusement...

*******BIG SPOILERS******

My Crack Airborne are having a rough time. As the two LZ battles have been largely separate I'll divide the report into two stories:

A) The "Map Edge" Group: The (LZ2?) group recovered well after the turn one ambush (caused 3 or 4 casualties) as they attempted to reach the buildings by the road. After clearing out the enemy from across the road, their Javelin team killed the high elevation bunker facing them but missed the extreme map edge corner bunker.

Meanwhile, teams that were sent to observe the "rift valley" and opposite cliffs came under accurate fire and arty bombardment and I lost an SMAW AT team (which seemed otherwise useless vs bunkers) and others which had been sent there with binocs to observe. The same problem awaited the FO and escort teams I sent to the cliffs overlooking the bunker right by the dam road. They received fire from the tall building overlooking the bunker and dam road as well as from far off bunkers.

With arty proving useless (or at least too much would have to be used) to kill bunkers, a squad (in 3 teams) had to hump to the map edge corner to take out the bunker there. Interestingly, they did not use any of their squad missiles (I was surprised) but were able to easily take it out from its rear with simple fire and grenades at very short (under 10m) range.

Even though they were receiving fire from the tall building covering the dam road as well as a far-off bunker beside the central LZ, this squad was able to attack and take the tall building covering the dam road quite easily. However, by this time, my XO and FO had each lost a man while trying to observe (and wasted arty to bombard) the roadside bunker and building. Enemy fire and arty KO'd one of the MG's and caused a couple more casualties amongst the troops.

Then an enemy chopper arrived and KO'd the Mk19 Hummvee. Fortunately, I had the vehicles abandoned, but a crewman from two vehicles were WIA as they carried their Mk 19 and the 50 cal to the safety of a building.

The troops who had taken the tall building hid during the aerial attacks. As soon as the chopper disappeared they wasted missile ammo trying to kill the bunker. But again, once they had closed to very close range from the rear of the bunker, they were able kill it easily with grenades.

At this point in time (about 1.5 hours in) however, the central LZ was being bypassed by the 2nd or 3rd enemy attack with lots of tanks. Three tanks and some infantry had reached the other end of the dam road and were able to fire directly at my infantry that had just taken out the roadside bunker as well as a dismounted TOW crew desperately trying to set up on top of the overlooking building killing the TOW and many infantry. They enemy (probably cos they were now too close) also seemed to be easily able to see and kill the 2nd dismounted TOW team and FO who were situated on top of the cliffs overlooking the same road.

The Central Group (LZ1?): I thought I had a good beginning. I sent teams to lots of observation points and soon spotted two nearby bunkers as well as a Shilka, a T52 and other defenses further towards the airfield objective. The Javelin team was ordered to fire at the Shalka, but used both missiles killing it. I was dismayed to find that the SMAW team refused to fire at a nearby bunker after several turns of just sitting there. Since the bunkers were covering each other I didn't think it smart to send infantry to close assault.

As infantry arrived, they occupied the "trenches" in the woods next to the LZ. The first enemy attack had a couple AC's and infantry and were dispatched with minimal friendly casualties. But, the enemy pressure kept increasing. I was kept completely on the defensive. A 2nd infantry attack along the gully caused at least 7 casualties but was repulsed when a lone surviving MG team member high in the wooded hills on the other side of the gully called down an accurate 81mm strike b4 being shot.

But, increasing enemy arty attacks and fighting the (3rd?) armor attack right into the LZ whittled away at my inf and then used up almost all of my inf AT weapons. Most of the APC's were killed, but 3-5 tanks survived multiple hits and caused many (12+) casualties to my guys in the trenches (including two of the remaining three MG teams) who were forced to retreat away from the LZ and the seemingly indestructible T62's. Those tanks then carried on to cause carnage to the "Map Edge" group as described above.

Conclusion:

Just like the Arnhem forces in WW2 MG, friendly forces had inadequate AT support (and arriving too late) considering what they faced. Also, "historically" I am not a good infantry CO, and usually do much better with combined arms - ie: with armor support.

1) 2 Javelins for each of only two teams meant that one had to kill exactly the right enemy units in the correct order as there was no room for errors. "Wasting" two Jav's on a far away Shilka was an error as they should have been used on the bunkers. With bunkers alive, the "Map Edge" force was unable to link up with the "Central Force" and ended up in static "waiting" positions when enemy arty and choppers arrived to shoot em up.

2) The TOWS arrived too late to be used properly. I couldn't find "safe" vantage point to set em up (dismounted), and they died quickly trying to set up as the enemy either had good observation on the suitable areas (arty and direct fire) and then the enemy tanks had advanced close enough to easily see and kill them.

Not to worry, this scenario is quite brilliant and fun to play. Much harder than "A Helluva Road Opening"! However, I do question the paucity of AT weapons - especially the Javelins. Surely, they would have brought more spares, even if some were lost in the airborne drop.

I am considering replaying, but given what I now know am not sure if this scenario would be replayable as knowing the above would make me do things that I may not have considered logical or sensible the first time.

I did do a CF only to see the casualties, and at this point I had suffered approx 10 KIA and 25 WIA (told you I had an ability to forget this stuff quickly), with the enemy casualties over a hundred I think (I didn't check the map). So, I think I shall "soldier on" and see if I can minimize further casualties and survive till the Brits arrive. However, enemy air (when there is no AA in CMSF) is deadly. (I am stuck on a Road to Dinas campaign mission thanks to enemy air even after restarting the mission about 20 times, and even cheating by looking at the map and wiping out the AI arty and ATGM assets right at the start!! And STILL I can't win that mission.)

[snake_eye]

Hi Erwin,

Very good AAR. My god, you went through an ordeal, with relentless Syrians counter attacks. I did recognize some of my own actions in yours when I tested the scenario for its AI plans. To my feeling you fought that battle well. the FOW really played its part. I wonder how I would have fought it, if I had not done it.

The scenario is highly re playable since there are two AI plans and it seems that they don't run exactly with the same time planning every time. That makes quite a difference for your defence..I think that from what you wrote you drew the best one. That is looking on the Syrian side !

*********************Possibly some spoilers *********************************

The enemy artillery seems in your case to have done the best it could to pin you down. To stay longer than necessary in LZ 2 seems to draw the enemy choppers. They ruined my tactical move more than one time, depending on which scenario AI you are against.

The tanks getting through will come to players as a surprise that is not expected. At least when it comes so quickly. It appears to come quickly, simply because, we are somehow attracted by some actions that are hiding partly the tank movements from us. Well, depending where your guys are located. I have been able to stop them in the road slope leading to LZ,2. Sure enough two of them ran straight down on a Challenger. I posted a video of that action earlier.

Like MG in WWII the airborne troops do not have the capabilities to move rapidly lacking transportation. They do have some AT assets and or anti bunkers weapons like few Javelin's, few SMAW's, some AT4 and M72LAW. The last ones become handy against APC's and Tanks at close quarter. but they lack armor till the Brits come. That is the problem.

That is why, that battle should be fought in defence once the airborne troops primary objectives is taken or at least checked by fire, if not secured at all.

The airborne troops should not spearhead the attack against the airfield. They can eventually follow the Brits and to my feeling they should not move farther than the Hill 54 OP.

The airfield is the primary objective of the Brits and they have the forces to take it.

In order to do so the Airborne troops should keep the gate open, allowing the Armor to get through at speed. Fortunately for them, they will not have to wait as long as the "Red Devils" did in Arnhem.

I shall be very interested to read how other have fought that battle. That could be a very interesting tactical data about the way they managed and that could be used in further scenarios to enhance the AI plans.

Cheer

[Erwin]

BTW: I am playing WEGO as I do almost all my games. I should have said that in my AAR as it usually makes a huge difference vs RT play.

Just a thought... Even though it may well be possible for me to win once the Brits arrive, I do feel that the outgunned US Airborne would have had more effective weapons vs bunkers and tanks since intel explicitly mentions them in the briefing.

If each of the 4 javelin missiles had killed one bunker each that would have made a big difference as the remaining bunker(s) could have been dealt with by close assault. (I would not use arty again as I wasted 81mm and 120mm on one bunker and it stayed alive.)

But, using the Javelins on the bunkers and ignoring the Shilka(s) and enemy tanks seems counter-intuitive. If using the Javs in that way is essential, as I believe it is, it probably should be mentioned in the briefing.

However I am curious... In RL would the US really airdrop into this hornets nest with only 4 Javelins and a bunch of AT weapons that were largely ineffective vs bunkers or T62's?

Despite my enjoyment of this scenario even as I was getting my butt kicked, I do feel a sense of frustration at this point of the game... because if I soldier on to see if I can still win, I see no other option but to do nothing but hide my US troops for the next 30+(?) minutes until the Brits arrive. And doing nothing for 30+ minutes of game time is never fun. If I knew the Brits would be arriving any minute, that would be exciting.

Regardless of "realism", it would make for a more fun scenario experience (cos "fun" and a sense of verisimilitude is what I am all about when I play entertainment games) if the briefing warned about the Javelin usage, OR, the US had a few more Javelins (instead of the useless TOW's), OR either the Brits and/or air support arrived earlier. Just an idea if you do a v2.

[BlackMoria]

My observations about the type and number of AT weapons the US forces have is similar. I found the SRAWs ineffective against the armor for the most part but I had better luck than you using them to bust bunkers.

Some insight from my playtesting for Snake_eye concerning the US Airborne forces. This is more for everyone than specifically directed at Erwin but these insights and suggestions will make a difference.

• For both LZ1 and LZ2, it is prudent to pick a defensive area in or near your LZs and sit tight until the Brits arrive. The reason is principally of economics - your AB forces don't have the AT weapons to defeat all the enemy armor and you don't have the small arms ammunition to do much more than hold the LZs and perhaps push your perimeter out a bit.
  
• The bunkers might seem to be a concern but in reality, you can place your forces so the bunkers can't engage them and allow the Brit armor to take care of them. It is easy to caught up with thinking you have to deal with the bunkers but with them having interlocking fields of fire with each other, trying to take them out will result in casualties. My suggestion - let the Brit reinforcements do the bunker clearing.
  
• Conserve on the Javelins. That means, give them very short firing arc so they don't fire. With four missiles, you need to prioritize on targets. It is tempting to see static T-55 and ZSUs and think you need to take them out but my advice is keep the Javelins to defend your airborne forces. Let your airpower and the Brits deal with static armor. Your targets for the Javelin should be tanks first and foremost. The LAWs and SRAWs have better chances taking out the BMPs and the BRDMs than tanks.
  
• Your TOW launchers can be put in creative places that have good lines of sight and are safer than hill tops. You just need to find them and sneak the launchers in. I have in both AI plans been able to stop the armor counter attack cold with just the Javelins and TOWs. Careful placement and micromanagement is key here.
  
• Get some of your forces high but this is important, DON'T fire them as they will reveal themselves and then you will have all sorts of armaments being shot at you and artillery raining down. One or two headquarter units and the FO is sufficient. You will see lots and can see the enemy moving around. Intel and the ability to see what is coming is more important than a MG team being able to kill or suppress enemy infantry because that hill top MG team of your isn't going to last long once it becomes spotted.
  
• The Syrian artillery is powerful once it adjusts onto you but is it slow to acquire and get on target. Once adjusting rounds start to come in, get you forces out of the way! It usually be be apparent what the artillery is trying to engage so don't be there when they go into fire for effect.
  
• Syrian air - keep under cover and dispersed as much as you can. There is nothing you can do except try not to get spotted and hunker down once the rockets and bombs start falling. If your vehicles are not someplace for a critical reason, keep them beside and between buildings - this makes them hard to spot and hard to hit if they are spotted. Under trees works nearly as well.
  
• Your artillery - don't go after bunkers or vehicles as it is costly in ammunition. Use your artillery on the enemy infantry. You can enough to really punish the enemy infantry if you catch them static in trenchworks or when they mass for attacks.
  
• This scenario really plays best on real time because the one minute WEGO can introduce surprises that can unfold rapidly and get a player 'back on his heels' very quickly, making for a tough uphill fight if you are just reacting to the enemy. You want to set the tempo and the prep the ground and fight on your terms, not the enemy's.
  
• Be aware of your orders and your objectives and stick to them. It might be tempting to fight the entire map but you don't HAVE to. I have bypassed and ignored significant enemy forces simply they had little to no impact on what my forces were doing and where my forces are. You can win by literally, like the Bridge Too Far of old, putting forces along the road to the airfield and ignore forces who can't see or can't fire effectively onto the road.
  

In short, use your forces to hold the LZs and blunt the counterattacks you can get and wait for the Brits to arrive. The Brits have the firepower to deal with everything the enemy puts in their way so they can force the roads to the airfield if need be. Use the Brits to kill the static armor and bunkers and pound any forces in the way.

[Erwin]

With the benefit of hindsight I agree with pretty much everything you said. However, it does make a HUGE difference if one is a RT player.

Without the advantage of hindsight or having familiarity with the scenario, and based on the briefing, I thought I was doing what was expected... only to find my forces completely outmatched.

The advantage of RT is that the player can hunker down as described above and do nothing much except wait for the Brits cos you can just let the clock run.

In WEGO it's a PITA to have to wait for sufficient force to arrive, so there is an all but irresistible urge for ACTION - and that impatience is what got me into trouble.

However, I think to play RT requires a mindset that many (incl myself) simply don't have for these larger engagements. RT is great if you only have a platoon or so. But, with companies spread out over a large map I can't understand how one can play enjoyably without pausing every few seconds to check out what is happening all over the place... At least that is my problem with RT in a large scenario. Plus I really enjoy replays, getting in close to see the action from different viewpoints etc. and admiring the map and units.

So, paradoxically while I agree with BM's comments I stand by all my comments regarding "enjoyment" and the irritation of having to wade through 30-60 WEGO turns hiding or whatever till the Brits arrive.

I think BM's points are all good, but primarily relevant for RT play. If that is what the scenario is designed for then that is fine. However, the briefing perhaps should say that so we WEGO-ers are warned.

[Erwin]

*****SPOILERS*****

Couldn't sleep, so decided to soldier on (till 3am) to see what would happen.

Got to 1 hour and 58 minutes left and the Brits are STILL not here. Really feeling like the poor Red Devils stuck in Arnhem.

CENTRAL LZ: After the two tanks and ATGM AFV made it to the dam road, things got very quiet around the central LZ area. So, in my impatience for action I pushed a 2nd Platoon squad of 11 plus their HQ (one guy) along the gully. Met some resistance. Thank goodness the AI tends to attack stupidly as my little force was able to overcome one ambush after another while suffering attrition. Made it to the first "trench" at the side of the objective with only two troopers and the HQ guy left. However, encouraged by this I have sent the best of the remaining squads of about 9 guys with decent ammo from the other platoon (but without their HQ which is spotting for arty) along the gully to the captured "trench" and I will start cautiously clearing the system when I start up again.

However, in trying to carefully crawl my Co HQ to a position to order air and arty strikes on the two T62's and ATGM AFV that are on the dam road, the Co HQ was KIA by one of the tanks (amazing optics).

Finally spotted an enemy FO on top of the cliffs, and am waiting for arty strike on it spotted by the other platoon HQ.

MAP EDGE LZ: Out of the two almost intact squads that made it to the tall building overlooking the dam road, one has been totally wiped out by tank fire and the other is down to 6 guys. However, the survivors were able to call in multiple airstrikes on the two T-62's.

It is interesting to see the reactive armor slowly being stripped away. But, despite being hit repeatedly by the Apache, the tanks seem unaffected(!!) and quite able to spot infantry trying to creep up on them.

On a happier note the team was able to bring down a successful 120mm strike on the ATGM AFV and killed it. However, enemy aircraft and arty have killed all the Humvees, knocked out the Mk19 and the entire force that arrived here is down to a total of less than 20 men including all crews etc.

One issue causing more casualties is that in all games I always try and send a team to treat the WIA, and in this game, the "medics" usually ended up as casualties as well.

The AI plan did a good job with the attacking T-62's. Several times they would attack and move just before an airstrike. It wasn't until they stopped just outside the map edge LZ that I was able to get the Apache on them. I can only hope that they are immobile and/or their main guns are OOA.

My sense at this point in time is that the enemy force has run out of steam and is just sitting around waiting for reinforcements, or for me to do something they can react to. Hence me pushing a weak force into the next objective. If there is anything there, my squad will get massacred. Stay tuned.

FYI: I CF'd just to see casualties, and I am up to something like 44 KIA and 60-something WIA vs the Syrians' 160-ish KIA and 100-ish WIA (I try not to study the numbers too much).

[snake_eye]

@Erwin and B.M

B.M, nice to have you giving your point of view, with which I clearly and totally agree, to Erwin.

You and I have tested and fought that battle having a precise look at the available forces and their assets with a special tactical awareness deriving from an analysis of the ground topographic features. That allows us to play it in R.T. Believe me the time being spent in defence, does not allow too much possibilities to have a nap. Even a short one. When eventually (depending of the way the player plays) times come during which the battle level quiets down, you have to take care of the WIA (if they are not in an exposed area) to replenish your ammos and or have them being redistributed among the grunts and to modify if needed your field of fire. Besides these necessities, I take time selecting a good emplacement for the TOWS (which I dismount from the Humvee, providing a lesser target). I also start , once the mortars and air assets become available, to delimit some interdiction fire plans in order to deny an easy access to LZ 1 to a highly possible counter attack (that is not any more a secret to any one reading the post). If the air asset is used accordingly with a good eyesight of the area, you can stop cold or at least slow down a counter attack should it be delivered. For doing so, as B.M wrote about it a well emplaced and hidden observer is needed

Doing all these things take time and you come close to the Brits arrival expected time.

For the rest, the battle is actually divided in two areas. LZ 1 and LZ 2 till the Brits arrival and from then on in a third area, while moving toward the airfield.

Till the Brits arrival you have effectively to manage the engagement of the Marines on two separate area. In R.T, pausing and micro managing become a necessity. B.M has written and explained it at numerous time.

Once the Brits go for the airfield you only have to care about them, the Marines staying as it has been written in the briefing on reserve, take care of themselves.

Erwin you are right and wrong to my feeling when you become somehow annoyed by what looks like the emptiness of the battle ground, awaiting some enemy reaction awaiting the Brits arrival. They don't come, so they did in Arnhem in WWII !

Believe me, if you stop playing and look at the map, you will be surprise to see numerous Red Icons in places you would have swear minutes ago, that there were no living soldiers in. That is for the FOW.

I do agree that playing in WEGO is somehow frustrating, since during 1 minute you just have to look at the movie. If you do so for an hour, sixty renewed time I can only pull my hat to your patience. I then do understand that at one moment, you can lose it, after renewed moment during which you stare at the movie and still not seeing that many actions.

On the contrary when the action is there, you can at leisure look at it at any angle and as many times you wish. But you will still have 60 seconds during which you will be unable to modify what you have thought fully planned.

Personally, I have explained in the past, why I favour R.T. It brings you right into the fight and you better have a good situation awareness to get a correct Sitrep. That is the same in a real action and it makes no difference wither it is a small one or a bigger one. Simply because you can not manage alone much more than a certain amount of information. If you had a staff around it would be certainly different and as a matter of fact, the staff is waiting for your decision deriving from their reports.

This scenario, I believe can be played in WEGO, but since it is a situation demanding tactical skills (I am sure that many players have them, as you do) the battle must be played by the clock. I have seen in the past people crouched and not moving for an hour, simply because there was no way to do something else. they were safe, where they were and it was the safest thing to do. Every time in such a situation, all possibilities having been looked at with attention, that a Gung Ho move was made disregarding them, it ended with problems.

Tactical training is dispensed to make you win with no casualty or at least to minimize them, if taking an objective is an absolute necessity. Reaching an objective with tremendous casualties did happen in the past, but it is not what is being learned in Military school. If it is done in a game in order to win the flag, let it be. To my taste I leave that scenario aside

Since, I wrote that you must play by the clock, it might mean that you have to play very quickly in one action and very slowly in another one. Nothing is granted and the same twice.

To meet your requirements that I do understand, even if I don't fully agree with you, I would like to find in CM one day, the possibility to play let's say in R.T and then in WEGO at a moment notice and revert in R.T when you feel doing it.

To alternate between R.T and WEGO with the possibility to watch the video of an action during a 60 seconds period would be fantastic. More, if a recording of the action made in R.T was available, that would terrific.

Maybe am I demanding too much ?

About your question Erwin about a V2 :

Remember your remarks about "A Helluva Road Opening". You were damn right and I did a V2. This time considering the tactic that has to be applied by the Red facing an attack on a vital area near their airfield, my hands are tied.

In order to have them mount a counter attack, I have to take in consideration few factors.

First the time. Second the pathways setting and the difficulties that the troops and the armor would have on their way. Third the result of the different testing, which provides to the designer valuable information's about the timing and the progression of the attack.

All of these, will be looked closely. From them a realistic unfolding of the A.I can be obtained.

Sure like in a real Counter Attack, a time comes when everything becomes quiet or at least seems quiet. Then you have to wait for the Brits.......

Napoleon waited himself and instead of the ones he expected the enemy reinforcement arrived. In Arnhem the red Devils expected for too long the armor and the motorized reinforcement.

At least in UK A Helluva Take Over - Op: Market Garden, the players can win and Black Moria lead the way in the testing.

In any case all the remarks have to be taken in consideration, since they are always a golden mine to a designer. If he can not apply them in one scenario for the reasons I have explained, he will most certainly later on, design a battle with the requisites that take in account the needs of the players.

A scenario designer without players and or players without a scenario designer, that we don't want it to happen.

Like the Musketeers we are one for all and all for one

Thanks to all of you

Cheer

[Erwin]

All thanks to you, Gregory for spending the time to design this scenario. I have enjoyed all your scenarios and if this one wasn't also really good, I wouldn't spend so much time on playing it or on writing the AAR's.

Re RT, it would be a good idea to let players know that is how it was designed and tested as that makes a big difference in one's expectation re how to play it.

FYI: The Brits arrived at 1h 55m remaining on the clock when I saved and exited. So am REALLY looking forward to starting this scenario up again.

One question re the Brit arrival zones. I thought they would all be coming down the long road at the map edge. I didn't even notice the force that appeared at the LZ until I wondered why the lone T-62 there was burning (heh).

However, it occurred to me that if my airborne hadn't sacrificed themselves to degrade down the enemy mech and inf attack that attempted to bypass the central LZ (so that luckily only one tank made it along the dam road to have LOS to the map edge LZ) we could have ended up with a bloodbath as the Brits might have suddenly been transported right in front of several T-62's, BMP's and enemy inf with AT weapons!

Certainly, that could have easily killed the Scimitars and APC's, and damaged a Challenger or two.

Fortunately, the lone (and presumably damaged) T-62 was dispatched within about 5 seconds with one tank round and a few 30mm. When the game is over I need to go back to a saved game and see just how damaged the T-62's were by the Apache. I was shocked that the Apache couldn't kill em.

Anyway, I need to study your briefing a lot more closely now to understand what my objectives are from this point in time. (I sure hope the Brits are bringing plenty of infantry as my US airborne are pretty shot up.)

The main thing to be assured about is that you have made a really entertaining scenario despite my comments about frustrating aspects.